Wingfoiling Progression

[bwd]

If getting an HA front foil why 925 over 1125 (I see there are 725 and 1325 sizes as well)? Armstrong’s pdf guide is out of date. It recommends 1125 for every weight and every sport. Glide and speed I’m keen on. Funny that it is really turny. Is that because you’ve ridden the 925? I thought one of the negatives of the HA’s was they are less turny and more challenging to ride (until you're gliding!). Did you modify all your gear to A+?

The 1250 foil kit I bought last year was all A+. I have the 925 and 1125. The 1125 is big (>1m wingspan) and maybe comparable to a HS1550, so if you want something for higher wind, say 18+, I'd go with the 925 (or 1250). The 925 has an almost perfect balance between glide and turning. The 1125 has better glide but is less turny and is great for the lighter days especially if there is some swell. I always seem to use the 925 now, but will go back to the 1125 for the lighter wind spring & summer days.

[Mikeonfoil]

Happy January 30th everyone. Has anyone had experience with the Armstrong HS 1550 v2 yet?

[slake]

Chewy,

Places to purchase in Canada - https://www.armstrongfoils.com/dealers/ Silent Sports and Kitesource are the two listed on Armstrong’s site. Further up this thread, Quick Water Canada, based in BC, is mentioned. Can’t say if one is better than the other. I bought from Kitesource last year.

Smartang,

Thanks for all the solutions. Never heard of FFP before. I should play around with mast position and shim on my current setup. Have only been neutral and used the standard shim that came with the kit. Mast toward the tail sounds opposite the direction I’d be going if getting these HA foils. Happy to be corrected. All of the solutions are going to cost $. Guess the balance is between the extra cost of a pricier board vs adapting a new board that might not have a forward enough box for the chosen foils. Simply looking at your post you have a ton more foil knowledge than I do. I’m just scratching the surface.

Dave,

See any reason to get both HS1250 and HA925? Or are they too close to each other? Is the HA1125/925 a better combo if getting two foils?
Is stepping down from HS1850 to HA925 going to be too challenging?
Does having an HS1550 v2 (the foil Mikeonfoil just asked about) before the HA925 make any sense?

I heard from winddoc that a) the HS1250 might be a tad easier than the HA925 but there is a lot of similarity and b) stepping down to the HS1550 v2 might not be that different from the HS1850.

Gosh too many dang numbers, and choices...and a final one on these Armstrong FG boards, is a 99L possible to SUP surf foil with at 85kg? Or should I keep that thought out my head and think about an 88L for wing foiling only?

Thanks

[Mikeonfoil]

Yup, an armstrong demo day would be nice. Too many options and very confusing.

[smartang]

Slake - I'm just saying you're not stuck if you get a different brand, but it'll take some mods and might not be ideal. Better just go with the Armstrong if you're looking toward HA925. The resale value will offset much of the original price next year anyway.

As far as KDMaui and Sky Rama putting the mast further back and standing with the back foot on the mast, I was just pointing out that those high level 190+lb guys ride it like that. So don't think you have to stand in the middle of a board because armstrong markets it that way. Stand where it feels best for the conditions, and adjust your mast, foil choice and shim so you can stand there.

I wouldn't recommend sup foiling on a 99L at your weight, unless you're a ninja. You only weigh 85kg when you're winging naked. I actually checked a couple weeks ago. 89kg in the morning, 102kg fully geared up after getting out of the cold water. I'd aim for +30L for sup foil in choppy water.

[bwd]

Really comfortable on foil now, riding switch, gybing on foil, tacking from switch (only reg. stance, working on goofy), and working on Heineken gybe...but it is mostly lake sailing, need to get into waves/swell....

See any reason to get both HS1250 and HA925? Or are they too close to each other? Is the HA1125/925 a better combo if getting two foils?
Is stepping down from HS1850 to HA925 going to be too challenging?
Does having an HS1550 v2 (the foil Mikeonfoil just asked about) before the HA925 make any sense?

I heard from winddoc that a) the HS1250 might be a tad easier than the HA925 but there is a lot of similarity and b) stepping down to the HS1550 v2 might not be that different from the HS1850.

All I can speak from is my experience with the 1250, 925 and 1125. I am not an expert and an average winger. I haven't touched my 1250 since I got the 925. I think they are too close to have both, but the 1250 is way more user friendly and I'm keeping it for sup foiling. You can't go wrong with either. It sounds like from your skills that you could handle the 925. It is/was a struggle for me to relearn foot switches with the 925 but I'm getting there. So I'd say:
- I think 1850 to 1550 is likely not enough of a step down
- 1250 is the safer bet and more user friendly, but the 925 has the glide/speed/upwind advantage

The 925 is still a challenge for me and I took a big step backwards going to a smaller board (60L) and the 925 at the same time, but I am slowly getting better. The 925 has way less margin for error than the 1250 so you have to be alert during take offs and foot switches. It will likely make you a better sailor in the long term, that's what I'm hoping anyway

[slake]

Do Armstrong A+ fuses, bought on their own, ship in some type of container/sleeve?

[bwd]

Yes the fuse comes in a neoprene storage sleeve and is also packed well in the shipping box.

Not sure if you are ever at RB but you can try my 1250/1125/925 some time

[slake]

Thanks for the offer but I already got my gear - HA1125 and HA925, with an HA195 tail. Christmas time in Feb. Those three foils came in Armstrong protective cover sleeves. The fuse, on the other hand, just came in some white throw away foam packaging, but it was full of screws, 2x barrel nuts, 2x 1 deg shims, 2x 0.5 deg shims, a T30 screwdriver, and black plastic cap over the pointy tail (it seemed complete). I have a neoprene sleeve built into the HS kit bag from last year. Isn't a show stopper there is no sleeve, it just seemed Armstrong stuff usually came with a nice protective cover, especially for travelling with the gear.

[peteb]

great reading about others winging progression aka sufferfest !

I started off on a skateboard at nexen beach/squamish learning the wing aspect on a 4.6m wing. then went to a rocket air 7 ft 11 with side fins/no foil to learn how to keep upwind.Sometimes I'd then I'd paddle upwind , attach paddle to naish wing and do downwinders. Getting on foil was where the tricky part came in with inflatables, I chose inflatables as a I fly to kitimat a lot for work and wanted something portable top play with in evenings after hospital shifts. My learning conditions were 10-13 knots, not nearly enough fo a 4.6 m naish and such a large inflatable board, so bought a gong hipe 5 ft 5 and 6 m wing, at the end of day I hated inflatables, sticky and prone to submarining !

Bought a cabrinha 110 l 6 ft 1 and went to la ventana 25 knot winds and was up on foil first session !

hang in there, its a bitch to learn, v humbling process but so much fun once it all clicks !

[slake]

It is great when it all clicks, and then there is so much to work on, but it is a lot more fun at that point. My other half wants to get in on the fun (err...initial sufferfest) and I'm going to insist she gets towed to learn foiling + wing-with-SUP to learn sailing, then combine the two (she kites a bit but doesn't have a sailing background). Learning with the wing only for power was a slog, without prior foiling experience.

Have had 4 sessions with the HA1125 and the 72 cm mast in mediocre winds with a 6 m wing. Other than modestly harder getting on foil it feels similar to the HS1850 - maybe points higher and goes faster but hard to tell (need more time and better conditions). I've been riding with the HA195 tail and no shims (which is -1 deg in the back). Was expecting turning to be sluggish. I don't find this the case doing S-turns but I bailed on a lot of gybes but am sure that will improve with better winds, more practice, and warmer weather (rigged down after a north wind a few weeks back and there was ice on the inflatable leading edge of the wing - my fingers felt like they were exploding during that session). It seems the HA1125 sings (high frequency hum), not sure if that's similar to what others experience. Didn't really notice anything like that with the HS1850. I also moved the mast all the way forward and flipped front washers to get an extra 2 cm (karate chop under the foil, and lifting up off ground, still has the board nose dipping to the floor). Haven't noticed for/aft balance being much different. Taking off I get more boat speed before engaging the foil and am less aggressive with angle on the foot pumping to get on foil, else it feels it can easily stall at take off (maybe too much pitch?).

Had an A+ upgrade snafu, that I talked to winddoc about, on the 85 cm mast. This was after successful A+ upgrades on the HS1850 and 72 cm mast. After drilling and countersinking the screw hole side I snapped off the pilot hole screw in the fuselage getting ready for the barrel nut hole. Dejected for a moment but was able to back out the broken pilot piece and get three regular screws in easily, so the alignment wasn't off (initially my big concern). Armstrong CS was absolutely great and is sending me some spare pilot hole screws to finish the job. If anyone else is in need of a pilot hole screw I'll soon have a few extras. Despite watching the upgrade video a number of times and feeling good with hand tools, it is still a nerve-racking drilling into pricey carbon gear I just bought last year...especially when the biggest bit engages with the carbon.

[winddoctor]

... It seems the HA1125 sings (high frequency hum), not sure if that's similar to what others experience. Didn't really notice anything like that with the HS1850...

It's likely the HA195 tail. My 1125 is silent. Seems to be common on this tail. Some are fairing the trailing edge a bit with varying success in getting rid of the hum.

[slake]

That's too bad about the hum on this tail (and in general). Learned something new - thanks Winddoc.

In the review here:

the guy, Matt Nuzzo, mentions humming toward the end, but only at high speed, and that Armstrong says it should be expected with anything high performance?!?

And this guy:

clearly got somewhat frustrated by the hum, and went to town to try and solve it. I'll ride some more and see how prevalent it is. My memory is it is omnipresent. Likely eventually file down the trailing edge of the HA195.

Likely irrelevant but the mid-point of the A+ fuse (metal) doesn't line up with my stabilizer exactly (a mm, or so, offset).

[smartang]

Don't file it! If you want to sand, this is a good guide. Step 4 especially.

https://www.riftboards.com/sanding-your-hydrofoil/

I only really notice a foil whistling in light winds, but I'm pretty sure it's pissing the sea lions off at San P.

[slake]

Sand.....I meant sand and wrote file. Maybe I should have used the word 'fairing'!

I've only been in light/mediocre conditions with this tail. Would like to be out with a 4 m in stronger winds, and ride a bit more before deciding to sand the trailing edge (really wasn't paying a lot of attention to the noise, I will now). I have few grades of fine wet/drive paper I bought for the A+ upgrade that were not even used, as drilling with water left very few, if any, marks. Likely use those with a block. Thanks for that link.