4 vs 5 batten sails

G-Daddy · Post by **G-Daddy** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:19 pm

Looking to add a 4.2 to our line up. I like North sails so I checked out their 2013 sails today and everything has changed. Wave/freestyle categories now break down into 4 vs 5 batten options.

What to do? Any advice? It would be my wife's high wind sail at the lake when I'm on the 4.5, and then I would rig it up for sessions in the fall SE sessions in the Strait.

Our smallest board is still a single fin 88L (fanatic free wave from about 2006). Probably will get a slightly smaller quad eventually, maybe next season.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:03 pm

4 Batten sails seem aimed more at lighter sailors and suit smaller sizes better (less cloth to support/stabilize), but if you believe the hype, sail makers appear to be building 4 batten sails that are now rangier and ok even for heavier sailors using larger sizes. I hope to try some in Maui soon. The Goya Banzai has received great reviews even from bigger guys for its low end and top end stability. Not sure about North's 4 batten sails. I know I'd prefer a lighter 4 batten sail over a heavier 5 batten sail if it was at least close in performance.

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:31 pm

Well light weight seems to be the buzz lately so if you want to be on trend, you should go with the 4-batten. a 4.2 sail is pretty small though so the argument of going to 4 battens for less weight doesn't hold up in my opinion. What is true is on a small sail, the area of unsupported sail area (vs 5) is going to be small anyway. the North Hero looks dead sexy. Your wife might love the lighter sail. hopefully you can get feedback from someone that has sailed one - i don't recall seeing many Norths in Maui rental pool though. counterpoint - I just bought a 4.2 myself, a heavy, pvc-windowed 5-batten 2010 model (used) Goya Guru. my thinking is it's stupid overkill for the lake but for heavy winds at Pistol/CB/JR it makes sense. I also have evolved a unique style that involves falling onto the rig often.

a sailor with more finesse could do with a less robust sail i am sure.

do you already have a compatible north mast? if no, you might be looking at some serious ka-ching.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:58 pm

Of course Winddoc and I sail 6-batten sails, even on the 4.2's (I think, never counted them).

voodmon · Post by **voodmon** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:17 pm

Yep Nanmoo, fires are six battens as are my voodoos all of them. Six battens makes a sail much more stable on the top end IMHO and for we get around here, a perfect solution since we have to rig for the lulls. I still have my eye on Calebs 4.7 fire since my 02 4.7 voodoo is getting a bit jaded as am I and all of my 02/03 voodoos and I have six of them that still work just fine for me, they were voodoo vidar jensens signature sail in those days, Bjorns caddy, don't know if you ever saw pic's of him at pozo 40 feet up in front of the condos. I think that these newer 4 batten sails are much lighter but will never have the range of sails like the fire or my voodoos, the new sail that I do like the look of though if I won the lottery and could afford, change my masts etc, is a new quiver of Goya gurus. That said G daddy I have been on norths since 1988 or there abouts, had a promo deal when I lived in Toronto and Ezzy was still with them, but beyond the ice hd not really interested in them anymore. Cheers all

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:10 am

It's my understanding that the 2012 Banzai's were suited for larger guys, the 2013 for the mid to smaller sized sailor as it lost some of its juice in return for better handling. Paul L has the full 2013 set, maybe ask him about them. I was tempted to try a new set of 2012 (still available) but after using the Guru, I can't really see any range, low end grunt or handling improvements possible....Plus when I ran one of Paul's it seemed very low center of effort, I prefer mine up higher. Apparently Goya's Jason Diffin is planning on finding some middle ground for the 2014's. KA's Kryptonite is their 4 batten weapon.
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/kryptonite/
JF tried my 5.0 Guru recently and I was suprised how much it was praised. Then back on the KA's I loved the weightlessness, there is a certain nimbleness and lightness that is lost when you build a bomber sail.....love both of them, will stick with the Kaos AND the Guru for now. Guru definitely a tougher sail for JR, pistol etc. but I would recommend the KA Kaos/Kults
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/kaos13/
or the Goya Eclipse or Nexus
http://goyawindsurfing.com/sails/items/y2013/nexus/
for the lake and for your wife....I'd rather have an extra batten and lighter build = same light weight. Happy to let you try out the Guru/Kaos/Kult

gorge_r_and_d · Post by **gorge_r_and_d** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:19 pm

I don't think you can generalize anymore with modern sail & # of battens. For sure the 6batten Fire was one of the most stable sails I ever had & the S.O before that. However, I think it is more about the "Feel" you want rather than ultimate wind range. For instance last year I replace my 6 batten Fire quiver with a split quiver of 5 batten Firelight's & Superfreak ME's & it worked out really well - especially on the "edges" of the quiver where I really liked the super light & efficient handling of the Firelight in a 5.3 & at the other end liked the softer more forgiving feel of the SFME in 3.7. It was in between at 4.2 & 4.7 where the "improvement" was not as noticeable & the 6 batten Fire was hard to beat.... This year I am trying the super compact 4 batten QU4D which supposedly has the top end feel of the Fire, but with the light weight of the Firelight. So, I don't think it is just down to # of battens but rather the intended "feel" of the sail..

Just my experience with one brand but may hold true for the North, Goya etc as well.

G-Daddy · Post by **G-Daddy** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:07 am

Went for the 4 batten 'Hero' after talking to North Reps. Weight difference is pretty small, but how the two different sails function very different.

5 batten=best draft stability, excellent on/off power, very front hand oriented and upright stance, best for single fin 'classic' wave riding

4 batten=less draft stability, more back handy, more low end power, best for multi fin boards in waves and flat water bump and jump

I figure the quad is next up, since the rest of the mutts have gone that way. The four batten sail would work well at Nitnat for my wife, and then for me at CB this fall.

rvanderbyl · Post by **rvanderbyl** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:58 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOErhJfq ... r_embedded[/youtube]

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:20 am

yikes! i sure hope you got a new one and not that old, unfashionable 2012 model!

looking forward to demo day!

rvanderbyl · Post by **rvanderbyl** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:55 am

Sorry about posting last years video. I was looking for a used one.

G-Daddy · Post by **G-Daddy** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:57 pm

Yeah that Marcilio guy didn't even know how jibe a couple years ago, then he got his hands on that 4 batten sail last year. The reps from North told me I'd be doing stuff like that within a few weeks too. That's why they call it the 'Hero' I guess...

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:31 pm

Believe the hype. The 4 batten quad won me over in about 2 waves. Tried the same size 3, 4, 5 and my 6 batten sails in the same session. Less battens, more compact, more backhanded but way more flickable and fun. Going down the line it snaps into a neutral position way quicker. Granted I did this test in about the best spot on the continent, but still. Interested to see how they feel b+j. I'm dragging a quiver back with me so whoever wants to try is welcome to, I'm particularly interested in windocs test run and feedback, especially since I may have been under the influence the better part of the past week.

What Caleb says I think is spot on, new laminates have really changed the game, but you need to see it, feel it, and abuse it to believe it.

winddude · Post by **winddude** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:05 am

Why go 4 battens when you can go 3? Hot Sails, Point-7 and Challenger all have them.

I think the choice comes down to a matter of style and preference. I've only tied the Np Combat (5-batten) vs The Fly (4-batten). At times I found the 4-batten sail to not feel as fast and was maybe a bit soft for my powerfull/aggressive style (I'm 200lbs and spend some time in the gym). The 4 batten sail seemed to twist off above the boom instead of closer to the head, giving it a softer feel. The Combat had more top end speed, and was my choice.

G-Daddy · Post by **G-Daddy** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:16 am

I gave the 4 batten 4.2 and 4.7 North Heros a thorough workout over a twelve day stay out at Nitnat in July. Superstoked on those sails. I don't have much experience on other wave sails though....

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