Twin Tip vs. Surfboard

haidagwaiisurf · Post by **haidagwaiisurf** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:41 pm

What is the best way to ride upwind? Twin tip or Surfboard? Is a strapped 5'4 fish better than unstrapped? Is a 9'0 longboard easier than a 6'1? Lots of variables with wind, waves, and skill, but interested to hear what the experts say.

SmallWaveSteve · Post by **SmallWaveSteve** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:08 pm

I'm still a noob, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but between my big twin tip (148 Cabrinha Prodigy), surfboard (homemade 5'0 quad), and a 57" wakesurf/skim style, the wakesurf is by far the easiest to point way upwind (the catch being you need to learn how to transition strapless/directional). The twin tip is by far the easiest to ride and stay upwind on though because a) transitions are much easier b) you don't have to worry about foot positioning c) you won't lose your footing/slip if you get going to quick skipping on chop

smartang · Post by **smartang** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:49 pm

hey haidagwaiisurf,

So why do you want to go upwind so badly? All the best styles of this sport are performed downwind: waveriding, airs, wakestyle, kiteloops, downwinders... Upwind is just something we have to do to get back to our cars. Kiteracing doesn't count here since those guys don't have a choice in board styles anymore anyway.

I could go on for pages about the advantages and disadvantages of each style of board in every condition. But I'm feeling lazy, so maybe you could tell us what your kiteboarding goals are, what gear you have right now, and when you're having trouble going upwind. Then maybe we can figure out a few head to head comparisons for you.

Teabag · Post by **Teabag** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:57 pm

After a RaceBoard, the DOOR, from Spleene.... DOOR SPLEENE, google that!!!! (the only disadvantage is if you are learning and try this
board and get a few hundred meters on each tack is that you ll need to "body drag downwind" every third or fourth tack because you might not be able to get downwind with it for your first 2 days.)

Spleene Door, seriously. Good lightwind board to!!!

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:55 pm

haidagwaiisurf wrote:What is the best way to ride upwind? Twin tip or Surfboard? Is a strapped 5'4 fish better than unstrapped? Is a 9'0 longboard easier than a 6'1? Lots of variables with wind, waves, and skill, but interested to hear what the experts say.

You shouldn't have any issues going upwind on any surfboard or twin tip. I can't see a 9' longboard being much fun to ride, but any of the typical shortboard styles people use to kite work fine.

haidagwaiisurf · Post by **haidagwaiisurf** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:42 am

Thanks Doods. The upwind is getting necessary as my wife is getting sick of picking my soggy ass up 15km down the beach in the middle of the day. I love the wave riding myself and have found my shortboard to really work, but I'm a bit of a kook still and the transitions are getting me downwind before I can really set up a tack and I've lost most my ground. I have a slingshot twin tip, but think a door might be the next purchase. My 5'4 LF fish is great, and strapped, but the fins are too small and I do slip a bit when I'm ripping and on the chop which is inevitable and quite large where I go and the same issue with the TT. The answer you've given me, that I think I already knew was to get a lightwind board and more days on the water. Appreciate the beta boys.

smartang · Post by **smartang** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:38 pm

haidagwaiisurf,

If you're side slipping on a twin tip or surfboard then your problem is not the board or fins, it could be a few adjustments, but it's most likely technique. Many of the best kiters ride finless (Hadlow, Dre).

Reasons for side slipping:

The board often wants to flatten out because your feet are too far from the heelside edge. Try moving your straps on your TT toward the heelside edge and duck them out a bit. For the surfboard, if the front strap is in the center, you'll want to wiggle your foot out of the strap and back toward the heelside rail. Especially if the fish shape is very wide. A wider stance on the TT will give you more edging control as well.

Still side slipping? You'll want to work on your edging position.
Front leg straight**
Back leg slightly bent
Weight evenly distributed on both HEELS and Leaning through your harness
You can also pull on your front toestrap (with your toes) which puts more pressure on the front heel
Head, chest and hips facing the direction of travel
Eyes looking upwind to where you want to go

Any of these can make or break your upwind tack. Keep in mind that you do not stand on the board to ride upwind. The board is a pivot point between you and the kite, and should be on a angle around 45 degrees to the water. The only time you flatten out a board and stand on it is when riding downwind (bearing off), waves, and landing jumps.

Only buy a door if you want to ride in less than 14 knots. It's a crutch and will not make you a better rider in regular wind conditions. I'd say stick with the twin tip until you have effective edging, then pull the surfboard out again. At least that way you'll be able to ride way upwind to make up for those transitions.

One last thing to keep in mind is sheeting. When riding upwind you should have little more than the weight of your hands on the bar. Learn to pull with your harness. If you're sheeted in too much the kite will either stall out or pull you out of balance and downwind. And signing a kite up and down aggressively is constantly putting the kite downwind of you, which is where you'll go. So park it about 10:30 or 1:30 and relax those fingers.

If you want to practice your edging position and learn to trust the harness, then hook a rope up to a tree, tie a loop in one end and hook it onto your spreader bar, then lean only using your heels with toes curled up. Do not grab the rope with your hands.

Good luck. It's not the board man, and besides, the winter storms are about to kick in (finally!). A door won't feel to nice in 30 knots.

abetanzo · Post by **abetanzo** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:49 pm

What's the best shape and size of surfboard for a rider weighing 220#s? I'm leaning towards a 6'2"x 20"x 2 1/4" ish??

Will mostly be riding her in the swells at Gordons or Cook... but will use it for light and heavy wind days!

I'm mostly mowing the lawn with the twin tip but will start jumping her soon! The surfboard looks like alotta fun slashing wave faces and riding down the line.

Cheers.

SmallWaveSteve · Post by **SmallWaveSteve** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:46 pm

The fuller shape of a fish makes gybing easier (from all the reading on it i've done), and their rocker profiles tend to be more similar to kiteboards than a typical shortboard is. That being said I don't know how much of a difference those factors will make with a kite hauling you vs paddling :p

If your remind me to bring it next time I have a 6'4 x 20 7/8 x 2 1/2 modern fish (that I surf surf on) that you're welcome to take for a rip, and the 5'0 quad I shaped.

juandesooka · Post by **juandesooka** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:22 pm

Abetanzon: For starting out on a surfboard, I think your best bet is whatever is cheapest! I have an old yellow 6'6" surfboard that I punched holes through to attach windsurfing straps, and now have a Naish 5'10" custom wave. There is not much difference in how they ride for a kitesurfing newbie!

What is interesting is how much more force in your legs is required to carve the big surfboard fins through a turn, compared to these nearly finless twin tips (I'm on a mako). But once you get the feel of that carve, it's fun ... and it's also fun how you can do big layback carves and then have the kite lift you back up ... would be a wipeout in surfing. There's the good stuff!

Of course, I'm still green as green could be, only a few sessions ahead of you at best ... let's see what the pros have to say.

abetanzo · Post by **abetanzo** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:45 pm

well i've bought a surfboard!! now the question is do I remove the wax and place a pad down or keep it waxed?

The rear end already has a traction pad!

Obsessioned · Post by **Obsessioned** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:01 pm

http://picklewaxremover.com/pickle_wax_remover.html

this is the best product for removing wax.. works like a charm. Firewater's good too:

http://www.chieffirewater.com/

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:13 pm

Use an old icescraper to remove the wax, it comes off easily. My advice-ride the board as is for awhile and see where you place your front foot before you committ to a pad. Either way, you will still need to put some wax between the 2 pads.

P.S. enjoy the board

haidagwaiisurf · Post by **haidagwaiisurf** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:14 pm

Easiest wax remover is the ol' ladies hair dryer, stuff wipes off clean as new and you'll see the uv damage to the board that wasn't waxed, and nothing needs to touch your board.

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:56 am

abetanzo wrote:well i've bought a surfboard!! now the question is do I remove the wax and place a pad down or keep it waxed?

The rear end already has a traction pad!

If you want to skip wax entirely there are a number of stick on traction products that can be applied once and forgotten without any mess or second thought.

I like EVA traction pads for my kite surfboards for the extra cushion they provide. The Dalkine Longboard Pad comes with 4 EVA stick on pieces that work great on a typical kite surfboard that has a tailpad installed.

NSI Clear Grip can be used on other spots where you want to occasionally put your feet. It can be cut to fit any size/shape spot.

http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/?s=nsi+clear+grip

Twin Tip vs. Surfboard

Twin Tip vs. Surfboard

Re: Twin Tip vs. Surfboard

Surfboard size and shape?

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