New wide boards: Gecko, Firemove etc

[downwind dave]

nice writeup! that's a good looking stick you got there. how are the light wind tricks going!

[DavidM]

I have the firemove 110 ltr. Dido KC7777 results.
I have slimmed down from my 235lbs to 210 lbs but at both weights it was very stable for me, only now I think I could uphaul it if i had to. I am running a much smaller fin (24cm) than what it comes with stock, even with my 6.0, just the 24cm. Trucks up wind super on the upwind rail with the small fin. Also find it very turny with the small fin and playful in the swells for bob/weave.
Wind range is quite impressive for such a wide board. Planes effortlessly, very stable platform when it is gusty and coasts thru the lulls. Am able to use 1 sail size smaller so that makes it that much more fun.
Only time i use a bigger board is when the wind is sketchy at Pipers for insurance if there is the potential for an offshore Pipers slog fest.

[KC7777]

I have the firemove 110 ltr. Dido KC7777 results.
I have slimmed down from my 235lbs to 210 lbs but at both weights it was very stable for me, only now I think I could uphaul it if i had to. I am running a much smaller fin (24cm) than what it comes with stock, even with my 6.0, just the 24cm. Trucks up wind super on the upwind rail with the small fin.
Wind range is quite impressive for such a wide board. Planes effortlessly, very stable platform when it is gusty and coasts thru the lulls. Am able to use 1 sail size smaller so that makes it that much more fun.
Only time i use a bigger board is when the wind is sketchy at Pipers for insurance if there is the potential for an offshore Pipers slog fest.

Yep. Exactly. At 170 lbs for me, I am not sure what I was thinking when I got the 120L! Anyone want to buy it? hahaha

Though even at 120L the wind range is impressive. I could see sailing this with a 5.2M and small fin just for fun. Last weekend, when Rika was on 5.2/95L I did a few runs OP'd with 5.7 and the 120L Gecko. It handles OP'd way better than my previous "freerace" boards (120L Hawk, 145L JP FreeRace). There just seems to be less pressure on your legs, that you typically get when OP'd on a too big, too wide board.

Cant say enough again how stable it is, and how easy it is to sail. It is stupidly easy to jibe.

K

[nanmoo]

Of course it is stable, it's a 120L barge and you are like what, a buck seventy-five when full of shit?!?!

That thing is practically a GO Board!

[alap]

from what I understand the main advantage of those boards is not increasing the low end but increasing the high end of the range.

I.e. this 120 l should be married to 7.0
As the wind increases you stay on the same rig. The water is getting choppier, but thin rails allow you to stay on same 7.0 instead of getting overpowered and moving to smaller board/smaller sale.

I.e. it extends the range towards overpowered conditions.
But low end - it is the same.

I am trying to compare apples and apples: same sailor, same wind, same sail, just different board.

I.e. if you take this board with 7.0 and say 120 liters race board with 7.0 in not overpowering wind you will be having fun.
If the wind is lighter you'll need pump both boards same way. May be one will start planing with half knot or even 1 knot less (who cares)
If the wind increases you may start having troubles with race board sooner than you will have with thin rails. With race board you may be forced to change to 6.0 on smaller board (extra rigging...), but will continue on free ride with thinner rails

From what you describe you sailed it with 6.0
Not the right sail for 120 liters

My advice to you - try it with 7.0 or 7.5
The idea is that you start when the wind is low. Your snob friends with the biggest sail 5.0 in quiver are waiting on the beach, looking on you in the straps and say to each other that this is not fun and you are a cheater.

Wind increases, some guys start on 6.0+100 liters and you still having fun on same rig. From that point the wind may stay the same or die down a bit - you having fun. Even if it dies completely you will shlog back on this wide thing and will be able to uphaul if needed (unlike our kiter friends).

Alternatively the wind increases even more, then you'll rig 5.0 on 90 or 85 or what have you and join the crowd of those who waited for two hours but now on the water.

Basically the main idea that you start with 7.0 or 7.5 and go directly to 5.0 without rigging 6.0

So once again with this 120 liters the idea is to avoid 6.0 completely, not to start with 6.0 as you did.

[KUS]

from what I understand the main advantage of those boards is not increasing the low end but increasing the high end of the range.

I.e. this 120 l should be married to 7.0
As the wind increases you stay on the same rig. The water is getting choppier, but thin rails allow you to stay on same 7.0 instead of getting overpowered and moving to smaller board/smaller sale.

I.e. it extends the range towards overpowered conditions.
But low end - it is the same.

I am trying to compare apples and apples: same sailor, same wind, same sail, just different board.

I.e. if you take this board with 7.0 and say 120 liters race board with 7.0 in not overpowering wind you will be having fun.
If the wind is lighter you'll need pump both boards same way. May be one will start planing with half knot or even 1 knot less (who cares)
If the wind increases you may start having troubles with race board sooner than you will have with thin rails. With race board you may be forced to change to 6.0 on smaller board (extra rigging...), but will continue on free ride with thinner rails

From what you describe you sailed it with 6.0
Not the right sail for 120 liters

My advice to you - try it with 7.0 or 7.5
The idea is that you start when the wind is low. Your snob friends with the biggest sail 5.0 in quiver are waiting on the beach, looking on you in the straps and say to each other that this is not fun and you are a cheater.

Wind increases, some guys start on 6.0+100 liters and you still having fun on same rig. From that point the wind may stay the same or die down a bit - you having fun. Even if it dies completely you will shlog back on this wide thing and will be able to uphaul if needed (unlike our kiter friends).

Alternatively the wind increases even more, then you'll rig 5.0 on 90 or 85 or what have you and join the crowd of those who waited for two hours but now on the water.

Basically the main idea that you start with 7.0 or 7.5 and go directly to 5.0 without rigging 6.0

So once again with this 120 liters the idea is to avoid 6.0 completely, not to start with 6.0 as you did.

i liked this post so much I just wanted to print it again
Rode the gecko today, that thing's strength is ripping upwind and planing verry quickly.....not sure what you said is true about using this in the upper end of wind.... and of course it can carry a large sail

[winddude]

i liked this post so much I just wanted to print it again
Rode the gecko today, that thing's strength is ripping upwind and planing verry quickly.....not sure what you said is true about using this in the upper end of wind.... and of course it can carry a large sail

Such a nice guy, no doubt you filed it in "Secrets I wish the top shapers knew"?


I'm not so nice, I filed it in "Kook of the day".

from what I understand the main advantage of those boards is not increasing the low end but increasing the high end of the range.

No! The geko and firemove are intermediate boards aimed to be an easy board to sail for the greatest number of riders, in the widest range of conditions.

I.e. this 120 l should be married to 7.0
As the wind increases you stay on the same rig. The water is getting choppier, but thin rails allow you to stay on same 7.0 instead of getting overpowered and moving to smaller board/smaller sale.

I.e. it extends the range towards overpowered conditions.
But low end - it is the same.

Having the right sail, right board, and right fin will result in the best session, fastest learning, and most fun! Now I'm not saying head to the beach and re-rig every 15 minutes, but conditions will dictate if say a 6.0 and 120 is better or a 6.0 and 100 is better.

The thin rails don't have much to do with over powered conditions. The thin rails move volume away from the rail making it easier to carve while maintaining width, softer rails make it more forgiving, and a v-bottom make the transition to the rail easier. The narrower tail make the board more manageable when over powered at the sacrifice of top end speed, and glide through lulls.

Board design and shaping are a balancing act, gaining in one area and sacrificing in another, to find a combination that works.

I am trying to compare apples and apples: same sailor, same wind, same sail, just different board.

Still not possible, is that sailor wanting to go fast, win a race, bust out the latest freestyle move or ride jaws?

I.e. if you take this board with 7.0 and say 120 liters race board with 7.0 in not overpowering wind you will be having fun.
If the wind is lighter you'll need pump both boards same way. May be one will start planing with half knot or even 1 knot less (who cares)
If the wind increases you may start having troubles with race board sooner than you will have with thin rails. With race board you may be forced to change to 6.0 on smaller board (extra rigging...), but will continue on free ride with thinner rails

It's not the thinner rails, a 120 liter freeride or gorge board from the mid 90s will be much narrower with fat rails, and will be in control in high winds in straight line, but at a sacrifice of early planning.

A light wind slalom will carry speed through a lull much better then a free ride board with a lot more top end speed, so it's really a question of what the riders goal is. In fact something like the isonic or an old hyper sonic probably have a bigger range top and bottom, then a freeride board, but sacrifice durability, and maneuverable.

From what you describe you sailed it with 6.0
Not the right sail for 120 liters

My advice to you - try it with 7.0 or 7.5
The idea is that you start when the wind is low. Your snob friends with the biggest sail 5.0 in quiver are waiting on the beach, looking on you in the straps and say to each other that this is not fun and you are a cheater.

Wind increases, some guys start on 6.0+100 liters and you still having fun on same rig. From that point the wind may stay the same or die down a bit - you having fun. Even if it dies completely you will shlog back on this wide thing and will be able to uphaul if needed (unlike our kiter friends).

Alternatively the wind increases even more, then you'll rig 5.0 on 90 or 85 or what have you and join the crowd of those who waited for two hours but now on the water.

Basically the main idea that you start with 7.0 or 7.5 and go directly to 5.0 without rigging 6.0

So once again with this 120 liters the idea is to avoid 6.0 completely, not to start with 6.0 as you did.

Wind doesn't always increase in a linear fashion. In the right conditions for the right rider a 6.0, and 120 might be the perfect combination.

One thing that was missed was fin selection, fins can make a huge difference, a 6.0 and a smaller fin on a 120 will change the dynamic of a 7.5 and larger fin drastically. If you're into high performance windsurf specifically racing, speed... the size isn't the only factor, shape, flex, rake profile and twist all matter, it's acting very similar to your sail but below the water.

You can say this and that about gear selection, but at the end of the day choosing the right equipment is all about the goal of the rider and what they want to accomplish. You could have the same rider in identical conditions, if he was doing slalom could be on an 8.0 and 111l board, but for freestyle a 5.0 and 99l board. Freeride he might be on a 6.2 and 120l. Throw some waves in the mix he might be on a 5.5 and 85l.