Authority is not the truth, truth is the authority!

[more force 4]

If you know a teensy bit about the U.S., you already know the U.S. government is the greatest malevolent force ever to exist!!

You should read about what the Nazis did some time. And Stalin. And the Pol Pot regime. And the Aztecs. And the Catholic church during the Inquisition (it wasn't just in Spain). And the Spanish in the New World.

The US may have done some evil things in its time, but never to the extent or with the evil intent of these or countless others. Though their treatment of many of the aboriginal tribes in the way of western colonization comes close.

The US has always had at its core some pretty decent values even if these weren't realized in their policies or actions. Its been in Bush's time that things really have gone down the tubes morally - like sanctioning torture.

[Mike P]

Allota people don't like this guy.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films ... /index.php

[~~~~~4j~~]

I liked the 3 minute version of The History of America that the South Park guys did in Bowling for Columbine:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzo9pOXa-s[/youtube]

If the cartoon ran a bit more into the future perhaps they'd show how ingrained US paranoia has a lot to do with recent politics...

[colin]

Conspiracy theorists use information selectively and ignore anything that does not support their theory.

You don't think the united states government does this EVERYDAY??

If you just watch the video of the towers falling and analyze it for what it is, and not the horror of it, there are most definitely explosives involved

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/ ... ate/#wtc-1

Sorry MM, the physics of the event just do not point to a collapse.....there is too much evidence to prove otherwise. The buildings would not turn to dust in mid air as the top section began to fall, it would crumble into chunks taking the path of least resistance. The path of least resistance would not be straight down as the lower portions of the towers were in perfect shape after the impact and fire.

Tower 7: "Trusses on the fifth and seventh floors of the building were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another; with the south face heavily damaged, the other columns were likely overtaxed. In engineering terms, the “progressive collapse” began on the eastern side, when weakened columns failed from the damage and fire. The entire building fell in on itself as the slumping east side dragged down the west side in a diagonal pattern."

I do not buy the explanation you provided for the collapse of tower 7, .THAT sounds like a bunch of technical jargon that is intended to dissuade people without any intuition (the majority of the US public).

[voodmon]

mike ..chill out...unless you support the bombing of iran...there is a scenerio that you are not aware of...and here we go back to the gutenburg group...henry kissenger et al...this is real, osama had nothing to to do with the world trade center, al qeiada is more than likely a double blind cia operation anyway..who funded saddam, who funded bin laden ? the cia..so basically the usa...they..the usa never goes into anywhere unless there is something to gain for them...financially or otherwise... witness the movie..which is so close to the truth...they are also involved in africa, and south america...hegemony..you bet ...cia involvement ...you bet...Putin..has put his cards on the table..he's a psychopath too..but he has way more power in his thinking than bush and his neo conservatives..wake up mike and smell the roses.....the usa is an empire that is finished..witness the withdrawal of british troops from iraq and other countries too..the rats are leaving the ship...best thing the world could ask for is....weapons into ploughshares..let's put that war money into health and wealfare....there are things in the books that none of you or them know about....we have 5 count them..years..to figure this out out...what the us is doing, with the help of all the people...those people who run the world..is a last ditch effort to control an outcome that will not happen...so..face reallity...they are guilty as charged...god knows who the judge is...my belief is...humanity will be the judge...the alternative is.. usa nukes iran...they retaliate..in kind...i cannot blame them...mother russia..strong as hell right now supports them...usa + canada is hit..esp where we live...people like kissenger croak..because they make up the gutenberger group that run the world....we the people have a god given right to our heritage...speak up people..stop being the plebs you have been..and tanks lots colin for starting this post... vood out...

[mortontoemike]

If you just watch the video of the towers falling and analyze it for what it is, and not the horror of it, there are most definitely explosives involved

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/ ... ate/#wtc-1

Paguepuppy! That's your definitive source?

Does Plague Puppy certify standard reference materials for clinical labs to calibrate their instruments? I'll take the National Institute of Standards and Technology's explanation over the ranting of "Plague Puppy" any day.

Maybe you should check out NIST.

http://www.nist.gov/

They employ scientists and engineers not stargazers and witchedy woos.

This is my last post on this nonsense.

P.S. Thanks for the SouthPark link ~~~~~4j~~. It's funny every time you watch it.

As for Iran, Iraq, and the USA, Voodman, like I already said, spend a few hours reading Gwynne Dyer on the subject. It's time well spent.

[Barb W]

So... have you watched Zeitgeist, yet? I think it's strange that there are no credits, who made it? Why are they hiding? It is a powerful movie that motivates us to always question and always seek the truth. But getting to the truth is a lot more work than simply watching a movie. Don't let your thinking get warped by a movie or any other media.

[Ross]

THE CREDITS ARE: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm

[mortontoemike]

OK. I lied. One more.

On the destructive aspect of wild conspiracies such as those in Zeitgeist.

http://www.alternet.org/story/12536

and this from:
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/06/ja ... ews-z.html

"It’s a shame, really, that Zeitgeist is, ultimately, such a mess. There are plenty of legitimate questions about what transpired on 9/11, just as there are plenty of shady doings in international finance or puzzling aspects of religious history, for that matter. And what is coming down in the name of National Security is truly unnerving. Yet, bundling them all together in disjointed fashion does justice to none of them. Time and again, Zeitgeist maximizes emotional impact at the expense of a more reasoned weighing of evidence. But, perhaps that’s the intention.

The video’s producer does inform us that “It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth . . .”

And:

".. outlandish, grandiose, and paranoid take on reality. While there are hefty kernels of truth rattling around throughout, the film does some Olympian stretching in its ambitious game of connect-the-dots. And as could be expected, it is rife with inaccuracies and dubious scholarship from start to finish .."
http://www.realitysandwich.com/node/471

[colin]

MM, I was merely giving the previous link because it is an excellent site for footage of the collapse, both video and still pictures (I have not even read the content).

There is no way, after reviewing the footage and contemplating it, that I believe the towers fell simply because of the fire and heat from the jet fuel weakening the steel.....IMPOSSIBLE.

I have studied the laws of physics too much to be ignorant to the characteristics of the collapse and its properties. I am not discussing politics, foreign relations, international business, terrorism etc, I am speaking from a perspective that has been developed through review of the footage from Sept 11 and eye witness accounts.

I am not interested in Zeitgeist reviews as they are merely personal opinions and representations. I understand the producers wanted to create some shock value to the film in order to get threads and conversations like this going, but that does not discount the evidence and subject matter that is presented.

As for this:

The video’s producer does inform us that “It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth, outlandish, grandiose, and paranoid take on reality.

Of course it should not be taken as the truth: an independent non government backed or controlled organization should give a third party opinion to the matter.

Should not be taken as "outlandish" meaning it should be taken as a serious matter that deserves attention.

Should not be taken as "grandiose" meaning that it is not theatrical or extravagant but honest evidence and information.

Paranoid, I'm not paranoid just unable to deal with how our world is run and by whom.

[Wingnut]

Hey Vood, they're called the Bilderberg Group.

[voodmon]

too many brewskies last night, i think they meet in guttenburg

[Teabag]

Thanks a lot for the multiple link/reading against Zeitgeist, but I am not convinced at all.

Let's forget about the towers, can you find a link about why the footage with the plane in the pentagone is hiding, and a link explaining why there is no traces of plane debris?

Why the whole Laden family was flew out of the U.S right after the 9/11?

etc..etc..etc.. There is way too many suspicious events...

[mortontoemike]

How odd. This was in todays news. This guy must read bigwavedave.ca.

The study analysed how the twin towers collapsed. An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University, UK, engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Tuesday, 11 September 2007, 01:45 GMT 02:45 UK

[The Dogs Bollucks]

As an uneducated outsider who has quite enjoyed the banter of this particular debate .. my personel opinion is this : Many powerful people in the US may have known that the events of 9 /11 were coming .. and they may have let it happen ..... to strengthen their arguement for war . As for whether they aided in the demolition in the towers ... I would find it hard to believe that any american would have gone along with the theory that this would have been the right thing to do .. and it would have taken more than a mere few to carry out such an undertaking ... especially with no eyewitnesses to any pre 9/11 preparations
Planes with fuel hit towers ... towers collapsed .. to their foundations .. which I'm sure probably caused catastrophic trauma to surrounding buildings ..
Does that not seem possible ?