Nitinat Lake Future

[mortontoemike]

Morewind. This IS a good time. Sooner rather than later because I know they want to wrap up the planning phase.

These are the emails I have:

Doug:
Paul:

If you PM me I can send a copy of the draft map. MF4 has a copy as well.

[Gareth]

I agree that the place seemed best from 2002 and before, but that may be just the relatively fewer users (though it was pretty packed sometimes even then). I wasn't there nearly as much this year as last, but it seemed that Dale did a great job of keeping things clean and as organised as possible. Its too bad he had to put up with so much BS, people wanting to keep their fires on the big tree roots etc.

The old logs will tell you that it was just as packed. I'm not suggesting that Dale didn't do a good job this year. What happenned between 2002-2006--could you hnestly say a goood job was done then? What happens if Dale is not around? The site is bi9gger than 1 person, so your experience there will ultimately depend on how well whatever group is running it, does.

After having been in all types of previous discussions where we were paid lip service to, but in reality ignored, I am a bit jaded.

Anyway, time will tell.
http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... sc&start=0
Here is the discussion from 2006:

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

[KUS]

I don't know of any public campground that permits people to park wherever they damn well please and to cut whatever they damn well please with a chain saw or to set fires wherever they want including on top of roots. This stuff needs to be controlled for the good of all of the users. People seem angry because they can't do whatever they want. It's weird.

I am totally on THIS page with you guys, it's the reference to RV's that has me up in arms. I cannot contact ANYTHING except perhaps roots that won't damage my RV, as far as I am concerned the bigger the RV the further you are from the trunk, the less likely you drive on roots, figure it out Roots are mostly exposed near the shore it is true but I cannot even get there.
As far as spacing and delineating, it would be a shame but at the same time adding gravel spots bordered by 4x4's might appeal to those tourists that need a huge space to themselves OR can assign two spots into one area so this blocking off of huge areas won't occur.

BTW- Guys spreading huge rigging tarps taking up another site and play the corral game, blocking access etc. during heavy usage days....I drive and walk through/all over those tarps/areas on purpose, in case anyone was ever wondering when they look at me with their territorial eyes all wide in disgust and offense. Unless the place is totally empty, F&%^ you, you know who you are. Ooops, ya got me going there lots of issues about beloved Nitinat Lake, eh

I have relocated fire pits (filled with broken glass and other fun stuff) and stopped folks who hadn't really considered their actions many times, at the risk of offending those who were not involved. Never forget when Mikey almost chewed my face off when I confronted him about leaving garbage out that the dogs spread around....it wasn't his Asked drunk people to not cut trees when THEY have the axe in THEIR hand and a beer in the other, not always a safe practice.

What we really need is education and basic rules which are enforced, not camp architecture. It should be on the sign entering the site, on the back of the camping permit, posted at the store. Move a few logs in strategic ways marked with a tag denoting tent sites and number the vehicle sites for ideal # of vehicles allowed or the owner pays for all if he blocks it, that kind of thing. A guy is parked on the root, he pays an extra $20, a guy cuts trees in the site, see you never, kick his ass out.
I would suggest rather than all of us sending an email to various powers that be, perhaps reference to this thread and similar ones on Windsurfer should suffice given we are a huge user group....that is if input is still wanted.
As far as management, I was only there twice last year and things were great, no complaints. Moved a couple of fire pits then too and packed out idiot's garbage, nothing new there

[GWIND]

KUS- I love you. you are so rite. The rules are printed and in plain english. I have the rules and next to nobody follows them-BECAUSE NOBODY MAKES THEM- period- BC PARKS HAVE RULES please everyone read them.

MTM-You are rite about people being angry, but, I really feel people are mad because of the lack of leadership and free for all attitude that has been building at that site for quite a while. PEOPLE love rules and they like them to be applied FAIRLY AND CONSISTANTLY. I am not picking on anyone. I think this will be a difficult job. Nitinaht needs to start out next season with a new attitude and outlook, or I think it's going to be a real ugly place to go.

[mortontoemike]

You are right GWIND. Confrontation is not fun. Most of us let stuff go that we probably shouldn't because we want to get along with everyone and don't want to create tension because the area is so small and we have to pass by each other on the way to the outhouse. So we put up with some dog shit on our shoes, and the motor bikes roaring around (except you on this one GWIND - good on ya), and people who hog space on the beach with giant tarps, and people who party till 4am (I'm in favour of this by the way), and power generators, and people who park big white buses in camping spots for a couple of months even though that are not there for a lot of the time, and the list goes on. There ARE rules governing all these behaviours in a provincial campground but Nitinat has evolved as a no rules place (including with free style camping). If people were considerate and sensitive to others and the environment we wouldn't need a "plan" but that's not the case.

[Wavos Rancheros]

On the practical side, what is a fair estimate of the number of campsites or campers that use the park on a busy day in summer now, and what is the estimated number of sites that will be available for cars/vans/tents/rv's after Phase1?

Correcting our impact on the environment is wise.

Correcting some of the blatant behaviors of people is what you would expect when more "order" is placed in the park, if it is enforced.

In the eyes of the government though, it may be just a demand/supply thing. The space in that park may be overutilized at times, considering the environment. Will they then limit the usage, or just manage it better?

I have personally enjoyed the "anarchy" that has ruled at Nitinaht for many years, and it was "managed" in a friendly way by the local flavor that was stronger in the past than now. (I have never once had my own campfire. I wear earplugs when its noisy, and I dont mind a crowded site) A wider base of visitors is going to reduce that manageability, and we see that now. If we wish to influence the government and other interested parties, we need to show what we CAN manage on our own. They will decide for themselves what we CAN'T manage, and act accordingly.

Speak UP! Pass the word. Dont' just listen in...

[mortontoemike]

On the practical side, what is a fair estimate of the number of campsites or campers that use the park on a busy day in summer now, and what is the estimated number of sites that will be available for cars/vans/tents/rv's after Phase1?

On the plan there were 40 identified "pads" after Phase I was implemented not including tent camping platforms lakeside and on the beach. This included the addition of 14 "pads" on the existing roads mostly on the inside of the current loop.

Phase II adds an inner road inside the current loop, roughly running north-south with about 7 more big pads for bigger RV's.

Phase III adds a new loop in the area of the big blow down in the south east corner of the current loop with about 20 pads, again on the larger side to fit large RV's.

So the total would be 65 - 70 clearly identified camping pads with fire pits and picnic tables I am assuming at the end.

I think Dale said at the peak there were in excess of 100 vehicles and a few hundred campers at the site. He can correct this with the right numbers.

[Gareth]

If something positive actually comes out of this process, I will supoport it 100%. However, during the past 5 years nothing has really changed, except for the price. If I sound negative, it is rather that I am highly sceptical.

[
So the total would be 65 - 70 clearly identified camping pads with fire pits and picnic tables I am assuming at the end.

I think Dale said at the peak there were in excess of 100 vehicles and a few hundred campers at the site. He can correct this with the right numbers.

I beleive the #'s are much higher on busy weekends, more like double. I could be wrong, but I think that that capacity would be exceeded fairly quickly on just an average weekend.

Actually, I think I've said enough, we have been through this process on almost an annual basis since about 1999.

Nothing much has changed since then except the campground opreator. Oh, and the fact that it has gone from free, to $30 for an annual pass, and now it is $10 per night. Same amount of amenities as 2000. I guess that that is progress.

[KUS]

oh man, from a few rocks blocking lake access to dedicated road systems with size restrictions if that happens I'm with Morewind, there are other places to go and maybe it's time for more of that
On the bright side I guess the more well-off than others will then get to reserve their favorite spots, eh welcome to our capitalist state park

Yeah, I've had enough of this debate too, Penguin Good on you to show the patience to actually attend the meeting, MTM, it's I am sure not for the short tempered, impatient and emotional like myself. Over and out

[more force 4]

I think Dale said at the peak there were in excess of 100 vehicles and a few hundred campers at the site. He can correct this with the right numbers.

My sailing log quotes Dale as saying there were over 200 vehicles one of the long weekends, I think Penguin is right. The Phase II and III would obviously help enormously (we'd only have to double or triple up on each spot), but implementing this is not in the cards for the forseeable future.

Yep, prices have gone up from nothing with no increase in amenities. I do recall when the windsurfing society ran it, the annual pass was fairly pricey and the overnight rate was, I think, the same as now.

Geez, Kus, whats the problem with lots more spots being created????? I thought everyone would be in favour of that!

[Gareth]

[Yep, prices have gone up from nothing with no increase in amenities. I do recall when the windsurfing society ran it, the annual pass was fairly pricey and the overnight rate was, I think, the same as now.

Overnight rate was $8, annual pass was $30 and if you wanted to belong to the society, there was a voluntary annual mebership of $20. So the most it could cost a family for the entire season was $50.

One has to remember that the $8 and $30 were legislated by the province.

As Kus says, over and out.

[mortontoemike]

Sorry KUS, perhaps I have left the wrong impression. No one said anything about size restrictions that I recall. All I said was that the Phase II and III pads would be large enough to accommodate large RV's, like in a proper park. Just like in those beautiful campgrounds in Washington and Oregon!

Also, there was no discussion of reservations. Where did that come from? We tried to communicate to Paul that Nitinat would never be like a normal park where when the campsites were full people would be turned away. People would always share their sites with others so that every one could fit in.

With the current level of usage the campground desperately needs more proper camp sites with a picnic table. I don't understand why people keep on getting angry because the ministry has asked for a plan to create more camping spots and to protect a few of the old growth trees along the lake front. Where is the input and feedback? I offered up a copy of the plan and only one person bothered to ask for it. Just a lot of grouching and complaining.

[KUS]

Geez, Kus, whats the problem with lots more spots being created????? I thought everyone would be in favour of that!

OK, you sucked me into the whirlpool of useless discussion for one more comment:
Newsflash: there is little need for more spots, just coordinaton and enforcement of the rules, everyone's always found room, even during windfest I could have parked in 20 different spots in the front row or across the front row. Nobody wants to be in mosquito alley or away from the lakefront, no matter if you build 200 new spots. There are very few to no non-windseeker users but the arrangement of roads and whirlpools, knicknack shops and tennis courts will appeal to those for sure ) So unless you create four spots for small cars and only tents in the front row and thereby eliminate the spaces to save trees that have and will always have root rot and are dying ANYWAYS (you guys make it sound like this trend is reversible and they can magically heal themselves) and are mostly garbage hemlock trees (the huge and dying Sitka's have been there a while and dying a wee bit before anyone drove around on their roots), you won't need to bulldoze in roads and put in tennis courts. And the root rot was NOT caused by people driving on them btw.
Reservations? what do YOU think will happen when we have little numbers on each designated small, medium, large campspot? Will an RV owner EVER get a front row spot? An on it goes, yes, MTM a frustrating bunch of comments from a frustrated bunch of Nitinat lovers.

[morewind]

Where is the input and feedback? .... Just a lot of grouching and complaining.

Good point. if you've got thoughts on Nitinat consider writing a letter to the decision makers. it took me about 15 minutes last night to write an email with my opinions and suggestions to:

Doug Herchmer, DH Recreation Services
Paul Tataryn, Ministry of Tourism, Sports & the Arts

Doug:
Paul:

Thanks to mortontoemike for providing us with these contacts

[more force 4]

Kus, running in some more roads in the back is not going to take out many trees, since its in the area that was almost completely blown down last winter. And as you say, the hemlock are mostly garbage from a timber and safety standpoint anyway. The plan is hardly to pave paradise! Dunno if it was cause I was there much less this last summer and I missed the buggiest time, but I didn't see nearly as many mosquitoes in the camp as in other years, even though it was wetter. I thought this was due to the increased sunlight getting to the ground.

I've ended up squeezing off to the side of the road above the camp, or parking in the ditch or up a log pile and schlepping all my gear to the beach (fine for a long weekend, a bit much for a single night) or tenting in a low spot and waking up in a foot of water. On balance, I'd prefer to be further up in the bush with a decent tent pad and table and walk for a minute to the beach.