stance

[windsurf247]

I seem to be having some consistent issues when sailing in bigger conditions. I feel a bit out of control, lots of spin out, heels dragging, butt dragging etc. I'm guessing it's my stance.

Any thoughts on a good stance for B&J type sailing?? What about boom height and harness line length?? My lines are pretty short and I typically prefer my boom lower than higher.

I probably sail overpowered more often than I should, which I'm sure doesn't help. I hate being underpowered though. Would a smaller sail lend itself better to a more upright stance?? Would I still be powered up?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated
Cheers.
Rob

[downwind dave]

everyone is different but here is what works for me. before i plug my sail into the base i lift the sail vertically and check the boom is right at my nipples (once connected to the base this is just under shoulder height). I also use 26" lines and a waist harness.
this will not necessarily work for you.. you need to experiment a bit to see what feels good. often when i get on someone elses' rig everything feels messed up.
my guess, you might just need a higher boom position. This gains you some leverage on the rig when overpowered. There are 4 guy cribb articles to read on stance that will probably help you (look in the links).

[winddoctor]

Dave has some good tips.

If the board starts feeling squirrely, first try moving the mastfoot forward a cm at a time until the board settles a bit. If the boom feels a bit high to deliver weight through your feet, lower it until you can. Don't go
below nipple height. Try a fin about 2cm smaller to get less lift and tail walking. Also, rather than hiking out so much that your butt slaps, try squatting a bit a la Finian Maynard or Dunkerbeck on the speed course. Try a wider stance and weight both feet equally rather than pushing laterally on the fin to avoid spinning out as much. Pushing hard against the fin works best when you are on flat water and are comfortably powered.
Most guys are sailing with their booms too low with tiny harness lines (under 24"). This forces them into an inefficient stance (slow to plane, bent arms due to crowding of the rig etc.) This is old school bad habits at work. Look at the top pro guys. Even shorter guys are riding 28+ " lines with higher booms. Also make sure your lines are far enough back on the boom.
Finally, a size smaller sail will allow you to stand more upright and won't deform as much. I love sailing lit up too, but at a certain point being way OP'd is too much work and switching one size down will be a good call and more fun!

[KUS]

everyone is different .....often when i get on someone elses' rig everything feels messed up.
my guess, you might just need a higher boom position. This gains you some leverage on the rig when overpowered.

Some good points but as above.

Spin outs are caused by poor sailboard positioning, like leaning the back rail on a straight run or stomping/leaning too heavily on the back foot/fin (or this can be caused by overpowered conditions when the fin cannot hold the larger powered sail= poor matching) or poor landings....bear off on landings (exaggerate it by landing pointing slightly upwind and you will know what I mean). Also try moving the fin forward, it will slow things down and give the fin better leverage.
Butt dragging is simply poor body position, squeeze those cheeks, look at pix of your self sailing.
Heels dragging?? Are your straps still in the "Lake" position? I got huge feet and have this issue sometimes when slalom sailing but not on the ocean....feet in the straps that are in wave or centermost position and single rear strap....take the second rear strap off the board for the ocean.

What works for me-

-Raise the boom as much as you can or at least so you can just hook in when extending your body when the mast is upright, like after a gybe or when slogging.....but when you plane the boom comes down and this should be easy. My boom is 1-3cm removed from clamping down on the upper luff sleeve but I'm 6'4"....which might explain why I don't like my lines too long
-out of control, downhaul more than you think you need or check the mast.....is it the right one or way too stiff?
-Lose the seat harness when sailing less than 5.3, it makes you sail more upright and improves balance, no way you'll slap yer ass in the water
-steer with the rail, not the fin if that makes any sense to you....it means getting your weight forward, facing more into the direction you are moving and centered between the mast and the front leg....and it keeps the board down.
-I'm in favor of shorter lines, well, not as long as some people....I run 22-24's on my small gear, 20 on large stuff....I have tried longer lines and could probably move to 26-28 but I am an old dog you will have more reaction time and a more upright sail with longer lines and less chance of getting catapulted, one particular event I rather enjoy during my sailing outings
-use swept B&J fins or wave fins (at your weight probably less than 24cm), lose the pointers altogether unless at the Nat when guys are on formula and 16m kites
-buy new sails....no really, buy new sails. BTW I know you like Sailworks and me too in the past but they didn't perform well when overpowered even if you downhauled them more, they did well underpowered, Ezzy's were the opposite (in my view and personal experience)
-an RDM will radically improve your sailing experience but probably has nothing to do with your current issues.
-did anyone mention RAISE THE BOOM? good luck

[GWIND]

somewhat on the same thread- How do you measure the length of a fin in centimeters, properly. And lets say the fin is still in the board.
In thirty words or less, KUS.

[KUS]

place the metric ruler along it and read the numbers (read the sheath it comes in or the label stuck on it ) so I'm longwinded Sue me

[GWIND]

90 DEGREES TO THE BOARD OR THE LENGTH FROM THE FRONT OF THE FIN TO THE VERY END OF THE FIN TIP? What's a sheath ?

[KUS]

What's a sheath ?

the thing you should use when sticking your dick where it doesn't belong or you don't know where it's been sorry, you asked for that....every manufacturer I believe varies this a bit, I have measured it along the center of the chord toward the tip....what's a chord? how about the "width" so I don't confuse you more....maybe someone has a better answer .....the tip is the pointy end ....AND YOU CAN STOP YELLING AT ME

[windsurf247]

Thanks all for the tips It sounds like my lines are too short (I think they are 18" or 20") and thus my boom is too low. I'll try some longer lines. Oddly enough, I switched to shorter lines a few years back after scoping out Windoc's rig at Nitinat. Did you have short lines a few years back Windoc or am I losing my mind Anyways, I can see how longer lines would likely help with a more upright stance.

I am using a waist harness and I have a single rear strap. I'm using swept freeride fins or wave fins on both boards. I did pick up some newer sails - 4.2 and 4.8 Revos. Not shiny new but newer and better shape than my 98's. I'm also looking into a RDM.

I think much of my problem arises from using a slalom sailing style in big ocean conditions. I'm likely overpowered, so I hike out, pulling the sail over top of myself with my short lines, the board starts bouncing because my weight's not over it, heels dig in because I'm hiked out too far causing board to rail up or spin out, butt drags because I'm hiked out too far etc etc etc

Makes sense to me. I'll try some longer lines and post back with my results.

Cheers
Rob

[GWIND]

Old slalom stance - hard habit to break, try to think of the ride more like you're riding a snowboard where you would be more on top of the ride, making moves faster, with more control.

[Wingnut]

Gwind - fins are generally measured perpendicular to the board from the bottom of the board to the tip of the fin.

[winddoctor]

On the harness line length issue, I'm 6'5", use 28" lines (could easily go 30"). Dunkerbeck, Buzianis, Maynard etc are all around 6'3"/6'4" and use long(er) lines as well. I was on 26" lines a few years ago, Rob, but I've found that my boom has been creeping up along with riding smaller fins over the last number of years. It will feel REALLY odd to ride long lines at first, but you'll likely not want to go back to short ones again. The change in body position and sailing technique will be worth it.

On the small gear in high wind, think about getting as much weight down into the rig, not away. Follow Wingnut on a nuke day; he's the master of this and is usually one of the fastest and most in-control guys even OP'd!

[KUS]

Fin length is not entirely the issue and this might help you pick the right one
http://www.sailusa.com/fins.html

if you think about boom height and the forces you place on your rig when the boom is very low this would explain most of your symptoms...raise the boom first before messing with the lines as longer lines would make your problems worse if you don't change anything else

[windsurf247]

I've tried my boom higher and it feels really awkward with the short lines (I checked and they're 18"). I have to reach as it is to get into them and I think if the boom went any higher, I would be pulling the rig down over myself instead of standing it more upright. I've got some adjustable lines that I'll play around with and see how they feel.

Another related issue I guess is mast track. I usually have mine at the back. After reading a bit on Guy Cribb's page (great info BTW ), it seems that some of the techniques have changed. I guess I'm guilty of practicing some "old school" techniques. Just when I thought I had it all figured out

[Johnnyman]

W247 I switched to longer lines I think that they are 24" from 22" and it made a instant improvement to my sailing in that little a jump. Easier to unhook, rig is more upright, fewer catapults. I could go as long as 26" but I tried WD's lines, I think his are 28, and could barley reach the boom. I'm 5'10" it's been a while but I think you're way taller than that. Hope to see ya and your famous beach wife this winter on a SE.