Sail Question

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:14 pm

I searched as much as I could handle online and couldn't find an answer for this.

I have hit the water 4 times now and am getting the hang of it, but I am really not sure if I am setting my sail up right. The downhaul concept I have down (ha!) I have it pulled within a few inches of the mast extension, but its the outhaul concept I am foggy on. Chris set up my boom length to work with the 6.3 sail, but when I went to rig it myself the first time, I seemed like the Battens 'hung' on one side of the mast (causing it to deform and look funny). To me it seemed that the sail should sit more in the middle of the mast. So I lengthened the boom a bit and the sail straightened out a bunch. So when I am tacking now, the sail still 'snaps' from one side of the mast to the other as the changing force of the wind moves the battens, but not near as much as before.

What am I doing wrong or right?

Taking a day off tomorrow to hopefully catch the 15 Knots the model is predicting at Willows or IV.

GWIND · Post by **GWIND** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:22 pm

GO to Ezzy sails or the other sail makers and look for their rigging video they are all pretty close.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:50 pm

ok so I watched a whole bunch of videos and did some research on my sail. Its a hifly 6.3, so I should have a 78" boom length. Measured that up and I need to shorten it by a inch or two. But the videos still don't answer my original question. The sails in the videos appear to have the battens centered on the mast, but with my shorter boom length I am certain they will tend to one side of the mast or the other. So is that normal? Most of the videos are crap visual quality so its hard to tell if maybe that is going on there.

Thanks!

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:07 pm

Hey Nanmoo,

Maybe you could post a shot of your rigged sail here? You may still not have enough downhaul on. The leech (trailing edge of the sail) should be somewhat "floppy" between the first two battens. There will be little shape in the head battens (flat profile) and the sail will get fuller toward the boom area. The battens in the boom will be more curved and should rotate easily around the mast with a little help from the wind. If they get stuck and stay under-rotated, try more DH, more OH, or a combination of the two.

Post a photo and we can give you more accurate feedback. I'd also be happy to show you how to rig it in person.

more force 4 · Post by **more force 4** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:32 pm

The symptoms do sound like not enough downhaul. If you rig with too little downhaul and way too much outhaul to compensate and try and pull the battens back from the mast, it will kill the sail's designed shape and result in very little drive (but lots of unwanted drag), and feel very 'top heavy' and twitchy.

By contrast to the downhaul, which takes a nearly unbelievable amount of tension, outhauls are typically designed to have relatively light tension - only enough to move the clew back 2-4 cm.

Easiest to see in person, definitely!

saulman · Post by **saulman** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:37 pm

The Cribbs guy had some pretty good advice and rules of thumb on rigging sails. I think he said that he has never seen too much downhaul and the top two battens should be in line with the mast- not on one side or the other. His take was that outhaul was the more important adjustment for tuning a sail.

his site is http://www.guycribb.com/
an article on the topic is here http://www.guycribb.com/userfiles/docum ... uthaul.pdf

Let me know if I remembered this wrong. I'm figuring out the fine tuning of these sails out myself.

Don't know what your strength is like but the rig winch from Chinook is awesome for getting that downhaul tensioned up. Bought mine from Excel.

windsurf247 · Post by **windsurf247** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:31 am

Hey Nanmoo. Glad to hear you're getting out.

Don't pay too much attention to the rigging specs. They're only general guidelines. Try to rig your sail by how it looks and how it feels. It sounds like your sail needs more downhaul.

As you add downhaul, your mast will bend and your sail will start to loosen. The top of the sail will get "floppy" and the upper battens will start to pull away from the mast. Experiment with DH tension to see the effects it has on your sail.

Theoretically, you could add DH so that your sail was floppy all the way to the boom and all the battens above the boom pulled away from the mast. This would be an extreme setting and would likely kill all of your sails power.

For a more ideal setting, try downhauling until the top 2 battens pull clear of the mast, and the 3rd batten is in line with it, or just slightly behind. This should leave the boom batten just behind the mast but easy to rotate when filled with wind.

Experiment with your boom settings too. There is typically not much tension required in the boom, but every sail is different. I usually attach my boom to my downhauled sail, pull it out about an inch past the clew and then play with settings from there.

Your downhaul setting will directly affect your outhaul setting so going by a predetermined measurement doesn't always work

Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Rob

JL · Post by JL » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:47 am

Bjorn D. was quoted as saying if your rig looks good on the beach it's wrong !!! Downhaul , lots of downhaul ... I liked the old Ezzy system where you had a series of marks on the leach & downhauled until the creases extended to them . It's a lot easier to change your rig tension than change sails ... & don't forget to pump your sail & board (bounce a bit) until your up to speed .

Bobson · Post by **Bobson** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:15 am

Hello Mr. Nanmoo dood!

The best way to learn this correctly is in person...you can read and watch video's till the cows come home but to really learn it.....in person with someone who knows or at least think they know is the way to go.

You can PM me and we can set up a time to rig up your sail or next time you're on the beach with other WSFers, just ask them. You will get a slightly different view from different sailors but then you just need to take all the information in and decide what you like best. Remember that with the same sail, you will rig your sail slightly differently for different conditions...usually slightly more downhaul/outhaul in more wind and less in less wind.

Bobson.

Sandy Beach · Post by **Sandy Beach** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:28 am

or, you could just get a rigging wench

JL · Post by JL » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:14 pm

Do they pump up kites & lay out lines ?

Sandy Beach · Post by **Sandy Beach** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:03 pm

I dunno, but I think that would be asking a little too much

more force 4 · Post by **more force 4** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:30 am

I was going to say, Jl, that surely you remember back to your youth, rigging wenches only go for windsurfers - but I didn't know how much trouble I'd get into so I didn't say it

UnusuallyLargeRobin · Post by **UnusuallyLargeRobin** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:31 am

windsurf247 wrote:Don't pay too much attention to the rigging specs. They're only general guidelines. Try to rig your sail by how it looks and how it feels. It sounds like your sail needs more downhaul.

I beg to disagree Wsurf247, "rigging to how it looks and feels" means nothing to new sailors, and often is counter productive to a sail designer's intention. The sail makers put those specs on the sails so you don't end up with this discussion. They are not "guidelines", they are THE proper rigging instructions for that sail as specified, and eliminates the need for all the peanut gallery suggestions on how to rig your sail. It's dead simple, take out a tape measure and rig to those specs (using the proper mast as specified). It will be accurate to +- 1-2cm. Every sail maker this decade will tell you the same. You (the sailor) will be happy, and the sail designer will be happy that you love their sail.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:27 am

So I hit up IV yesterday after lunch and tried out some of these suggestions.

What I did and how it worked:

Set the boom to the sail manf. suggested length. Used my chinook T-shaped cleat thing to downhaul the sail to within a few cm of the bottom of the mast. Set the outhaul so that it was within a few cm of the end of the boom.

This made the sail so the top two or so battens were clear of the mast, and the lower ones were on one side of the mast. The sail seemed to have a better shape than it did before. On the water the battens would slide across to the other side of the mast when changing directions when the sail was faced up to the wind, albeit it was gusty, so if the wind had died a bit, it needed a good shake to get it to slide.

All and all I think the sail felt better. So thanks for the tips, and next time I see someone out there, maybe they can check it for me to see what they think.

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