whatcha paddling

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:09 pm

i quite enjoyed the banter over BWD's SUP board for sale. made me wonder about my options as i am hoping to demo a few in maui next month. Last few years i've been using my old 10'6" x 25" plastic fantastic calypso to shred around saanich inlet and shawnigan lake. Id like to get onto something a bit lighter that i could maybe surf on 2 foot days but still have decent glide in flatwater. maybe a mast plug.

any recommendations? what works for you... etc

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:51 pm

Refer to banter in BWD's FOR-SALE-SUP thread.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:32 pm

I've a Starboard Whopper (10' X 34"). Very surfy despite its dimensions with lots of rocker. Glide is minimal, but ok in flat water. Sails well underpowered in waves (great JR or LB skunk-proof board for <15 knots). This board rips for its size in real surf. As a one SUP board solution, I'm happy with it. A Starboard Blend or Drive may be worth a look. The Naish Manas are excellent all round boards as well.

KC7777 · Post by **KC7777** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:18 pm

Hi Dave,

I like my 2009 (9'8" x 30", 141L) Starboard Element SUP.

It is pretty stable for it size to SUP in flat water (I weigh 170-175 lbs). It felt almost as stable as my Naish 11'6"x29.5" (230L) that I sold, but it turns very well compared to the Naish. I found it pretty easy to find the balance point and is easy to go from parallel stance to surfing stance.

It is really easy to sail and I could get it planing (which was near impossible for the huge Naish). Funny thing is that I wanted a SUP with footstraps (which is why I bought the Starboard), but hardly use the footstraps when SUP sailing....as you are usually never planing but kind of just chugging around looking for waves to turn onto. I actually removed the front 2 footstraps and only use the back footstrap to carry it down the beach when there is a sail attached.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:14 pm

KC7777 wrote:and only use the back footstrap to carry it down the beach when there is a sail attached.

That would be handy. On Maui where there is only sand and I don't own the boards I usually hold the boom and leash attachment on the tail and just drag the nose down the beach. Wouldn't work so well in these parts, especially if you like your board.

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:06 am

thanks for the input! so far 2 votes for starboards and one offer to try out a tabou. KC, im impressed you dropped almost 2' and 100l from one board to the next but still find the Element 'almost as stable'..
when these SUP boards first came out i was freaked out by the sheer mass of the beasts, thats why i figured why not just paddle my 20 year old Bic. Now they seem to be getting more manageable near-longboard sized.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:53 am

I think Keith finds it almost as stable because the excessive amount of volume his first board had. You can keeping adding volume until you have a sailboat, but at some point the payoffs in stability must start to decline rapidly. Length to me also seems less important when it comes to stability, (in fact often the opposite as it picks up more wave action) and width is more important. You rarely find yourself falling off the tip or tail, nearly always off the sides.

KC7777 · Post by **KC7777** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:44 am

Hi Dave,

Nanmoo is bang on. When I mean stable, I mean the Starboard is easy to paddle in warm water in the summer (ie Nitinat or Hornby), where falling in is a viable option. I really think that a 30" minimum width is the real key for the feeling of stability while SUPing in flat water on shorter SUPs. Nanmoo is right that most of the falling is over the side. The Starboard feels stable when paddling with my feet bracing on the balance point and the paddle in the water. The Starboard does not feel over buoyant or "corky" due to excess volume/length like the Naish. Note the Naish was only 29.5" wide....but so huge in volume (5.5" thickness x 11'6") that it was very stable.

This "excess" stability can be useful if you want a SUP to tour around on and explore. I used to take the Naish up to Lac la Hache in the the early spring (near 100 Mile House)....I would cruise the lake with a coffee in the mornings.....about a week after the ice came off the lake. The water was frigid. I would wear regular clothes instead of a wetsuit, ski jacket, gloves, toque and insulated rubber boots on the Naish. Falling in was not an option and never happened on the Naish. I would NOT try SUPing in cold water like that on the Starboard 9'8" as any mistake and you are in the water.....NOTE: nothing funnier than the looks from some drunk rednecks all decked out, trolling along in their fishing boats and then you cruise by standing up on the water. Hilarious.

Also, your feet will get wet SUPing a 9'8", as somtimes one foot is almost buried in water as you lean on a rail to get stability and some athleticism is definitely involved -- you can actually feel your core/legs getting a bit tired from the constant "balancing" on the smaller SUP. Whereas on the Naish, I used to jump right onto the board off of a dock and then paddle for an hour and come back with dry feet. No stress of falling at all.

So my thoughts are that owning a big SUP is much like owning a canoe. Easy and fun to paddle and explore nature etc.. ....but aren't most of us (windsurfers/kiters) looking for a multi-purpose (SUP /sail / surf) watercraft that has a bit of a learning curve?

I have also SUP'ed a Starboard Whopper (10'x34"), Starboard SUPer (12'x32") and a Naish 10'6"x28" SUP. The Whopper was nice, the big 12' Starboard was similar to the Naish 11'6" and the 10'6" Naish at 160L was "tippier" than my current 9'8" Starboard (141L) due to the narrow width of 28".

My recommendations is to get something close to 10' but at least 30" wide with a windsurf insert.

The Starboard Hero is also really interesting ....probably easier to SUP surf due to the extra 3" width. It has a really short 9'0" length and is 33" wide! (146L).

One other factor is transporting the huge 11'6" size SUPS....I always felt sorry for my roof rack, as the Naish was so massive. The Starboard looks much more like a regular surfboard or windsurfer when it is up there.

Go to the Starboard SUP website and use their SUP finder tool where you can select options for: Primary Use (pure wave, wave/allround, flatwater etc), SUP Experience (beg, intermediate, advanced), Body Weight, Water Conditions (glass vs choppy) and Stability Required (low/med/high).

When I selected: wave/all around use, 175 lbs, intermediate experience, choppy conditions, with mid level stability.....the 9'8" Starboard Element was the "most advanced" board for recommended for me. Plus it had a windsurfing attachment and footstraps.

PS - I hunted around for the wood version of the Starboard Element.....sweet to look at, here is a pic with the footstraps. Also - it has 3 insert holes for different positions for the single-bolt windsrufing base. Also attached is a pic of me standing on the 9'8" Starboard in flat water at Hornby Island....those are my 2 sons behind me on their 6'0" fish surfboards....I was building up their paddling muscles.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:30 pm

KC7777 wrote:PS - I hunted around for the wood version.....sweet to look at, here is a pic with the footstraps. Also - it has 3 insert holes for the single-bolt base:

and a full compliment of KC7777 stickers

morewind · Post by **morewind** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:43 pm

After a bit of web surfing I settled on ordering a Tabou SUP:
http://www.paddleboarddirect.com/2011-C ... tec102.htm

Seemed like a good choice for mix of flat water, small surf, wave windsurfing in light air. 10'2"x30", 180L. Keen has the same one. I tried his in the Gorge (Victoria) for flat water and was impressed -- it paddles well, but a bit slower than my windsurf board -- 1980's Mistral SST (12'6" x 28", 220L). Definitely more stable than the windsurf board. The Tabou seems turny. I'm 165lbs.

30"+ wide seems to be a general consensus in webland for stability.

Delivery in April, I hope...

bwd · Post by **bwd** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:02 pm

The longboard style 10'-11' x 30 or so seems to be the best compromise for doing both flat water and surf SUP'ing. At that length you will get reasonable glide. I have KC7's old Naish 10-6 x 28 160L and it's great for me. I paddle 99% flat water and get out 1-3x a week. It has a lot of rocker so it's not the fastest or best tracking board, but it works reasonably well for flat water. It's fun to sail and turns like a short board when you stomp on the tail. I've had it out a few times in the surf and it seems okay, but I'm crappy so it's hard to say. Ideally I would get a 12'-14' board since I do mostly flat water, but it's hard to beat the Naish, it does everything and fits in my van.

I tried the Starboard Blend for a day and I really liked it. It has more glide than my Naish and seemed to turn just as well. The Drive looks good too. Hard to beat the Tabou 10-2 price though. I tried Keen's for a bit and even for my 140lbs it worked really well. Good glide and super stable with a wide tail that you can bury to pivot it around. The Naish is narrow in the tail and is a bit tippy when you turn it.

eastside · Post by **eastside** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:46 pm

I have surfed and sailed a Starboard Extremist 9'8" about 150 L , 30 in wide. Surfed a 9' 3" Naish 29.5 in about 130 L and sailed a 10' 8" JP 145 L. 30 in The Extremist doesn't sail that well and doesn't really plane. Mine is the camo base model and fairly heavy. Not planing doesn't really matter as you only want it for wave sailing in low wind. It does plane on the wave. It has footstraps but you don't really need them because when you do you will probably be on a short board . (They are handy to carry the board to the beach though). When I got the Extremist a couple of years ago it was considered a short SUP, but with a bit of surf experience and the windsurfing I didn't have any problem with it's size. It paddles well and is stable but does not have much glide. Fun in the waves. Everything from 2' to 8'. I have seen the JP in action in waves and it works great. It sails nicely and you can get it on a plane. It is light and well built. The JP is well reviewed and reasonably priced. Between the JP and the Extremist I would go for the JP for its sailing ability. KC7777s Starboard looks like a nice one. I looked at the new Starboard model like KC7777s except carbon. It was super light but cost 2200 US. The Naish is fun in the waves but very tippy, so not so versatile. It is definitely not for any long paddling. It has no mast box. For windsurfing, waves and general fun paddling I would go for a board about 10 ft , 30 in wide and about 150 litres. I weigh about 175 lb.

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:41 am

hey this is some great stuff. i knew some of you guys were su-peeing but didn't know what anyone was using (except for KC7 who is always happy to share). KC you should hook up your leashes and have a tug-o-war, that would work the paddling muscles!
I am stoked to go try some boards. i am also building up an 'innovative' paddle i will post up as it comes along.