Drift from piper's to gabriola on October 27
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jim mckenzie
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:15 pm
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The lifejacket thing is about when everything has gone wrong and you are totally screwed. Imagine your gear has blown away, it's getting dark and you have completely run out of plans. You are exhausted and cold. In a lifejacket and a wetsuit you can just float and wait until you bump into land or someone finds you (you can swim just enough to keep some body heat happening). It may take a long time and be very scary but you are essentially OK. Wearing a lifejacket, you can sail offshore, overpowered, stupid or whatever and you will be OK. As it is sometimes hard to quantify 'stupid' I wear a lifejacket and then I know I'm covered.
I use an O'neill Gooru vest in fall/winter/early spring. Provides warmth, impact protection and flotation. Fits very snug, not bulky. Doesn't affect maneuvers (cause it's combined with a 6/4). Highly recommended option. I've tried some others and this is the best I've found in terms of balance between comfort and function
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windaddiction
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:33 pm
- Location: victoria
Wow very scary story, I tend to sail side-off conditions, at esquimalt lagoon. However in most cases I'd end up downtown plus there is a very high amount of marine traffic! I remember one time when I ditched out there and pasta dude went out in his canoe to save my gear ! ( thanks man!)
Being stuck in an off-shore conditions is a large fear of mine, actually prevents me from sailing a lot. I know even when I'm at JR paddle surfing I am very aware of how fast I am drifting.
I think maybe we need to brainstorm a device ( not an EPRIB ) But something like the mayday AIS system that comes on some VHF radios..... if you build they will come!
Being stuck in an off-shore conditions is a large fear of mine, actually prevents me from sailing a lot. I know even when I'm at JR paddle surfing I am very aware of how fast I am drifting.
I think maybe we need to brainstorm a device ( not an EPRIB ) But something like the mayday AIS system that comes on some VHF radios..... if you build they will come!
Last edited by windaddiction on Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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windaddiction
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:33 pm
- Location: victoria
Drift from Pipers
Make damn sure you tie your board to yourself before you ditch your rig. If you slide off the wind will blow your board away faster than you can swim and then you are really in the soup.
So DavidM and I attended the debrief in Nanaimo on Wednesday at the RCMP station. Present were the manager of Joint Rescue Co-ordination Centre (JRCC) in Victoria, one of the two JRCC coordinators on duty that day and the RCMP officer who attended Pipers Beach. Also present were the Nanaimo RCMP station commander and an RCMP officer who had been involved in a number of land based searches.
It was useful to go through the incident and see it from the eyes of JRCC. What it came down to was that, besides Dave there had been another person who reported a windsurfer in distress who later reported that the person was under way again and doing fine. In addition, they received confirmations from two other sources, a dive boat and the light keeper that they could not see anyone in distress and that the windsurfers they could see were all doing fine.
My own learnings:
-make the call to JRCC regardless of how many other people might have called. In fact, if another guy calls, make a point of calling yourself. The more calls they get the more likely they are to conclude that there is someone in distress.
-do not rely on relaying information through anyone. There is no better way to convey information than talking directly as possible with JRCC and give them as exact information as possible. This should include
-If there seems to be any confusion about the situation you will need to take some action. Get others to corroborate your information, be as precise as possible in your details. Call again. Be willing to be stubborn. If they get details from someone they trust more that you (lighthouse keeper) saying the guy is okay, you are going to need to convince them otherwise.
-The only proof that the person is rescued is someone talking to them. If your spidey senses are going off, insist on some proof that the person is fine.
We talked about precautionary measures including cellphones, VHFs, PLBs and flares. I will leave you to discuss and decide on these yourselves.
My hope is that next time JRCC might now have some background/knowledge/sensitivity to better judge information being provided from a fellow windsurfer who is in a position to provide very dependable information.
Other Learnings
-Take heed of Kus' suggestions for playing safe. If this guy had needed serious help it would have arrived too late.
-phone numbers for JRCC in Victoria: #727 (cell), 250-413-8933, 800-567-5111
-A forceful intervention on the beach is better than a drift to Gabe any day.
It was useful to go through the incident and see it from the eyes of JRCC. What it came down to was that, besides Dave there had been another person who reported a windsurfer in distress who later reported that the person was under way again and doing fine. In addition, they received confirmations from two other sources, a dive boat and the light keeper that they could not see anyone in distress and that the windsurfers they could see were all doing fine.
My own learnings:
-make the call to JRCC regardless of how many other people might have called. In fact, if another guy calls, make a point of calling yourself. The more calls they get the more likely they are to conclude that there is someone in distress.
-do not rely on relaying information through anyone. There is no better way to convey information than talking directly as possible with JRCC and give them as exact information as possible. This should include
- +your name and phone number
+as precise a location as possible of the person in distress and what direction they are heading
+what the person is doing, wearing, describe their gear. Remind them that in distress a person might leave the sail behind and may not be able to stand on the board.
+how long they have been struggling
+the location for other sailors who are out there so they are not confused with the one in distress.This is important! Don't let them mistake those who are doing fine with those who are not!
+make sure you convey your experience level and if you had been out sailing yourself so that they can appropriately gauge the veracity of your information. Remember, they get all kinds of folks calling for non-events.
+the conditions including wind, current and sea state
+anything about the sailor: name, vehicle, phone, from where, skill level,
+if anyone else had tried to reach or rescue the sailor
-If there seems to be any confusion about the situation you will need to take some action. Get others to corroborate your information, be as precise as possible in your details. Call again. Be willing to be stubborn. If they get details from someone they trust more that you (lighthouse keeper) saying the guy is okay, you are going to need to convince them otherwise.
-The only proof that the person is rescued is someone talking to them. If your spidey senses are going off, insist on some proof that the person is fine.
We talked about precautionary measures including cellphones, VHFs, PLBs and flares. I will leave you to discuss and decide on these yourselves.
My hope is that next time JRCC might now have some background/knowledge/sensitivity to better judge information being provided from a fellow windsurfer who is in a position to provide very dependable information.
Other Learnings
-Take heed of Kus' suggestions for playing safe. If this guy had needed serious help it would have arrived too late.
-phone numbers for JRCC in Victoria: #727 (cell), 250-413-8933, 800-567-5111
-A forceful intervention on the beach is better than a drift to Gabe any day.
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abetanzo
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:35 pm
- Location: Vic
- Has thanked: 1 time
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happy to hear the debrief from JRCC.. its too bad that they received incorrect info from different sources and trusted one more they then other. I saw them out around 1pm that day but by 2pm they were headed back.
I'd say a VHF is the best piece of safety equipment but I wasn't able to hear Luke during our downwinder for some reason. unable to figure out why but he could hear me!
that being said you better know how to operate one and which channel to call out on! unless youre knocked out this will probably save your life.
flares are only good if someone is looking! personal beacon / GPS locators are good for simple tracking of a boat but a submerged beacon won't work when your floating / drifting.
I carry a submersable light on the PFD and will be wearing my PFD next time out in 35+
I'd say a VHF is the best piece of safety equipment but I wasn't able to hear Luke during our downwinder for some reason. unable to figure out why but he could hear me!
that being said you better know how to operate one and which channel to call out on! unless youre knocked out this will probably save your life.
flares are only good if someone is looking! personal beacon / GPS locators are good for simple tracking of a boat but a submerged beacon won't work when your floating / drifting.
I carry a submersable light on the PFD and will be wearing my PFD next time out in 35+
Awesome debrief and good on the RC's for having the meeting!!
Possible to have emerg number posted on corner of homepage adding also Nanaimo and VHF ch 16 or *16 for the cell??
Possible to have emerg number posted on corner of homepage adding also Nanaimo and VHF ch 16 or *16 for the cell??
Wish less, sail more!!
Vancouver Island Windsports
Chinook /Takuma /KA Australia
You're either in or in the way....
Doing things the hard way since 1963....
Vancouver Island Windsports
Chinook /Takuma /KA Australia
You're either in or in the way....
Doing things the hard way since 1963....
Very good post Saul.
Also, at minimum, know the standard distress signal, (waving your arms over your head). and use it while you are still within the site of people on the shore if you are in the slightest doubt that you cannot self rescue or body drag in.
If it is reported that a distress signal is given by the individual, it has much more weight with the coast guard and coast guard will not call off the search until you are found even if there are conflicting reports by others that they think you have happily sailed away or have self rescued to a beach some place down wind.
One of Coast Guard's questions is, "did the individual give a distress signal " and you report the facts...no he didn't give a distress signal, we observe that he is trying to water start, uphaul his sail, working on something on his rig, but he is going down wind fast and based on our experience we certain think that he needs a rescue, even if he doesn't think he needs rescue at this point. And no distress signal was ever given by the individual.
Better scenario is being able to report; Yes, he is in fact in distress, we see him waving his arms in the distress signal like he meant it!!
Coast Guard has been receiving many false alarms from well meant observers from land, making distress calls for sighting of people they feel are in need of help. We are reading about these incidents regularly on BWD site. Coast Guard respond to these calls only to finding that the kiter/windsurfer could self rescue, fully intended to self rescue and in no way wanted any help. Ie. what the heck are you doing here Mr. Coast Guard, I was never in trouble.
In this case at Pipers the well meant calls from observers worked the wrong way.
Help really was needed!
I hope this never happens again, but I will be more aggressive when reporting someone I think in need of help as well as utilize the points that Saul has put forth in his post.
To All "IF YOU NEED HELP, GIVE THE SIGNAL, even if it is just with your arms.!
Personally, I'm getting MINI FLARES!!!
In our big playing field, even with the buddy system it could be a long time before your buddy realized you are missing or need help. It is not like we are windsurfing/kiting holding hands strolling down the sidewalk. We are up wind, down wind, some of us go out too far or have gone into the beach to warm up. Personally I am always checking up/down and out to see where everyone is and I know that all my buddies are watching me. When I'm down and in the water they sail by and ask are you ok and I give them the thumbs up.
But that is when I am in the immediate arena. Get out of the immediate arena as we all do from time to time and it could be a long while before they recognize we are GONE!
MINI FLARES - THINK ABOUT IT, i am.
Also, at minimum, know the standard distress signal, (waving your arms over your head). and use it while you are still within the site of people on the shore if you are in the slightest doubt that you cannot self rescue or body drag in.
If it is reported that a distress signal is given by the individual, it has much more weight with the coast guard and coast guard will not call off the search until you are found even if there are conflicting reports by others that they think you have happily sailed away or have self rescued to a beach some place down wind.
One of Coast Guard's questions is, "did the individual give a distress signal " and you report the facts...no he didn't give a distress signal, we observe that he is trying to water start, uphaul his sail, working on something on his rig, but he is going down wind fast and based on our experience we certain think that he needs a rescue, even if he doesn't think he needs rescue at this point. And no distress signal was ever given by the individual.
Better scenario is being able to report; Yes, he is in fact in distress, we see him waving his arms in the distress signal like he meant it!!
Coast Guard has been receiving many false alarms from well meant observers from land, making distress calls for sighting of people they feel are in need of help. We are reading about these incidents regularly on BWD site. Coast Guard respond to these calls only to finding that the kiter/windsurfer could self rescue, fully intended to self rescue and in no way wanted any help. Ie. what the heck are you doing here Mr. Coast Guard, I was never in trouble.
In this case at Pipers the well meant calls from observers worked the wrong way.
Help really was needed!
I hope this never happens again, but I will be more aggressive when reporting someone I think in need of help as well as utilize the points that Saul has put forth in his post.
To All "IF YOU NEED HELP, GIVE THE SIGNAL, even if it is just with your arms.!
Personally, I'm getting MINI FLARES!!!
In our big playing field, even with the buddy system it could be a long time before your buddy realized you are missing or need help. It is not like we are windsurfing/kiting holding hands strolling down the sidewalk. We are up wind, down wind, some of us go out too far or have gone into the beach to warm up. Personally I am always checking up/down and out to see where everyone is and I know that all my buddies are watching me. When I'm down and in the water they sail by and ask are you ok and I give them the thumbs up.
But that is when I am in the immediate arena. Get out of the immediate arena as we all do from time to time and it could be a long while before they recognize we are GONE!
MINI FLARES - THINK ABOUT IT, i am.
