Board Construction

iamvwman · Post by **iamvwman** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:04 pm

Looking for some advice here.............

I have had several ASA or HRS construction boards over the years and now considering moving up to a lighter construction.

Any pros and cons to consider for a big dude who is riding freeride style boards and just blasting around? I've been looking at the Fanatic Shark LTD. and the JP X-cite ride pro.

My main concern is whether it's worth the extra $'s for durability and performance. I have been told that it is easier to repair the higher performance boards but you will be repairing them more often.

Cheers, Rob.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:04 pm

Hey Rob,

As long as you aren't in the phase of getting launched over the bars repeatedly and smashing the board's nose, I don't see why you'd be repairing your board frequently. If you take a bit of care with the board while handling it on the beach/putting it away, you should be able to keep it mostly ding free. A freeride board won't take that much abuse unless you are a jumper. It's more the deck area where your back foot pressures the board stepping forward while jibing that gets soft. You can mitigate this a bit by placing a pad down on the jibe patch.

Is the more expensive construction worth it? I'd say in the larger boards it is as you'll save more weight compared to a small, highwind oriented hull. It will feel that bit more responsive and alive. The crispness of carbon is nicer in freeride and slalom boards too. It's the smaller waveboards where it's better to have a little flex or give to take the harshness away. Sometimes the expensive carbon versions in wave models end up giving too much feedback depending on the carbon lay-up, making your joints hurt and teeth chatter from the lack of dampening. Psychologically it's nice having the "pro" version though

.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:27 pm

In my experience 99% of the damage aside from harmless compression dents occurs either getting in or out of the water - and no construction does well against sharp rocks.

eastside · Post by **eastside** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:18 pm

Red Baron can attest to that. Starboard has a video on the different constructions. Which says what Windoc posted. I have not noticed them being more fragile.

KC7777 · Post by **KC7777** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:29 pm

Hey Rob,

I have had both HRS Fanatics and LTD/Team Edition Fanatics.

Took me just 2 days to crack the nose on my 105L Team Edition FreeWave (harness not unhooking and then slamming myself into the nose)....whereas I never ever harmed the HRS.

My 120L Fanatic Hawk is the wood version....good compromise between HRS and LTD.

The Wood version and Team Editions feel more responsive.....not that I know what the hell responsive should feel like when windsurfing.....now if you want to talk skis I can really help!

Keith

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:23 am

get only the best! your livelihood as a pro windsurfer depends on it.

a modern sandwich WS board should not have dents, that is the start of a squishy deck or worse. "harmless compression dents' is what someone tells you when they are trying to sell you a board.

jim mckenzie · Post by **jim mckenzie** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:31 am

Realistically, boards tend to need repair. Fixing old epoxy/carbon type boards has been quite doable in the past so I've preferred them. Above all, I found boards with plastic coatings to be unrepairable so avoided them.
The newer boards have layers of materials inside including PVC which is a plastic. As well, they often have an unstipulated surface coat. As I expect to be buying these boards soon (when they're well used) I wonder how they are for repairs. I wonder which are easiest to effect a quality repair.

iamvwman · Post by **iamvwman** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:53 am

Thanks Guys.........

After much deliberation and wife convincing, I went with the pro/carbon version and a nice bag. There are some sweet deals out there on last years gear.

Also found through a little digging that the pro models seem to be easier to repair, if needed. Less plastic..........

Looking forward to it, Cheers!

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:03 pm

PVC foam is very common in boards built since the early 90's, it is used to strategically strengthen the eps blank in higher stress areas like the boxes and standing area. you can just glass over it for repairs no problem with any epoxy resin, no worries.

edit - sweet! rip it up!

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:48 pm

By harmless compression dents I mean the superficial ones on the rails from mast bumps, accidental bumps into carport posts, or clamping your board down too hard on the rack. You are hard pressed to find a wave board that has seen real action without those. Thanks to sandwich construction it is only the outer sandwich layer of divinylcell getting squished and I don't see those going soft. I'd be more concerned about heel dents or dents in between the front and rear strap areas, but those are typically from use, not abuse or accidents and any construction will eventually suffer them.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:52 pm

downwind dave wrote:PVC foam is very common in boards built since the early 90's, it is used to strategically strengthen the eps blank in higher stress areas like the boxes and standing area. you can just glass over it for repairs no problem with any epoxy resin, no worries.

Or more generically, just about every production WS board built these days is completely wrapped in a PVC sandwich, with inserts and fin boxes set in PVC blocks inserted into the EPS foam. Unlike a custom board they are molded and then pressed in the layup as one complete unit bonded together, as opposed customs which are shaped and then layed up with multiple steps using individual layers relying on the blank to maintain their shape.

So the layering is like EPS->lightweight glass->Thin wrap of PVC foam->Carbon or Glass -> Glass -> Final Hot coat, Paint etc...

The PVC foam goes by a variety of names depending on which company is selling it. Divinylcell is the one you seem to hear about most.

jim mckenzie · Post by **jim mckenzie** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:55 pm

so when they say, "PVC outside layer" as here,
https://www.fanatic.com/content/product ... x_eng.html
they mean it's a second layer of foam?
That's a lotta layers there, but it's fine if they all stick to epoxy. I find it's hard to decipher exactly what these various materials are in the ads. Thanks.

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:14 pm

i think that would be correct jim, based on that diagram it looks like glass wrapped over it. what i was alluding to earlier is a layer of pvc is quite common and nothing to worry about.. its not like there is a layer of plastic garbage bag in there or something. The thing is, what you see in an ad and what you might find when you open it up can be very different, you really need to trust the company and whatever reputation they might have. for example "theboardlady" website has a pic of a busted board with a "carbon sandwich" graphic right on the deck.. no carbon, no sandwich!

http://www.boardlady.com/truth.htm

winddude · Post by **winddude** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:21 pm

iamvwman wrote: Also found through a little digging that the pro models seem to be easier to repair, if needed. Less plastic..........

If you're talking plastic in terms of an ASA skin or a complete EVA deck you'll never repair it, but that's only found in beginner boards (Some SUPs).

Generally any sandwhich construction you can fix with vacuum bagging.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:28 pm

Further to what Winddude said, "plastic" usually refers to an additional top sheet layer in the molding/pressing process that takes the place of a hot coat over the final layer of glass/carbon. You'll find this on the really robust (and heavy) production boards designed for rental fleets and/or abuse. Ie. NSP boards. As the RedBaron just found out with his longboard that got smashed when his truck rolled, it's really hard to repair these unless you find someway to remove that top sheet.

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