Nitinat Kite Lessons, Launching affecting Park/water users

[tempy]

Mmmm. And here I thought "line dancing" was just funny. Goldenrule, it would be great if some of the senior (not age, just experience) kiting community would hear out some of the frustrations of Winddude and other poleskippers at NN.

I am a shitty kiter, and a 20 year NN windsurfer. My kids and I are kiting, and I am all about brotherly and sisterly love on and off the water. There doesn't need to be conflict. We are all enjoying cool sports and an awesome environment.

Having said that - "good fences make good neighbours". What does that mean for NN? There used to be "rules". They were printed and pasted on the Notice Board. They helped everyone respect the space and each other's space.

Last time I was there, there were some folks (I think) from Squamish who were camped down in "windsurfville" and were launching right in front of their campsite; between the big stump and the point.

I understand coming in at all points along the lake, because sometimes you have to, but these folks were launching right there. A few weeks ago, one of them went ass-over-kettle through kites and boards on the beach when a launch went south.

They were regularly launching right in front of incoming windsurfers.

I politely suggested they launch upwind in the kite launch area; explained the problems launching where they were and was politely told to go jump in the lake; that they could launch anywhere they wanted to and, because they were experienced, it was safe.

I was in my kite gear. I was on their "team". I explained that, if other less experienced kiters saw them launching there, then suddenly others will start and then it is just a matter of time before there is an "accident" that further polarizes our watersport community.

It would be great if Strong and Elevation would take some leadership along with other seasoned and experienced NN users and set up some guidelines and then also "enforce" them (in as much as is possible) - because it has to come from the kiteboard leadership - not us "pole-squawkers".

Also, ALL users should be aware of the fact that beginners are around and not always in control. I try kite early and late to avoid the crowds. On my windsurfer I always try go upwind of the kite, or far downwind. I try show my kite-bros a "shaka" - meet their eye; acknowledge them on the water - the same way I do with my windsurf-bros.

See you out there this weekend!

[banjohips]

Well said Tempy.

[nanmoo]

If only Winddude could say things in such a constructive manner.

[GoldenRule]

Yes tempy well said. There has been enough bickering online about these topics. Winddude it's becoming very clear that you are trying to get things going and enjoying it. Are u trying to start some kind of war. We all have to have fun and share the lake. Again I look forward to hearing the concerns you and other windsurfers have. In turn I would expect the same ear to our concerns. This is the best way for us all to have fun and go back to work Monday. So please come and find me when you are up to it.

[MartyD]

Thank you Tempy. I would happily sit down with the windsurfers and talk about this. I want it all to work. I can promise you that all Elevation and Strong students are informed about how thing work up here.
As for the Squamish crew there is not a ton we can do about that. I am in full agreement but all I can do is politely suggest things. Beyond that it is up to them.

[tempy]

Thanks Marty. I know Marie and your crew teach that way. See you all there this weekend! Working on my transitions. Have ... to .... beat .... Melody! Stephen.

[tempy]

I just wanted to add one more thing. NN has had a good history of self-policing. Throughout the 90's and 00's there was a good (and varied) group who would deal with yahoos (on and off the water), in a firm but cohesive way. There is no reason we cannot continue to do it as a cohesive, responsible user group.

I think it needs enough people to:

a. provide the right information to users;
b. provide guidance or "correction" in a respectful way; and,
c. in cases of blatant disregard for others - let those people know they are not welcome.

When yahoos see that the overall "vibe" does not support their actions - they move on to other areas.

Imagine if it was a case of someone lighting fires in fire ban season (not this year, it has to stop raining for that!); or letting their dogs run all over kites / sails and crapping everywhere; or leaving garbage all over the site. I think the use / misuse of the water area is similair and can be dealt with in the same way.

I think there are enough examples around the world of kiteboarding being banned because of a failure to address these issues for us all to sit up and take note of what can be achieved by working together.

[winddude]

Thank you Tempy. I would happily sit down with the windsurfers and talk about this. I want it all to work. I can promise you that all Elevation and Strong students are informed about how thing work up here.
As for the Squamish crew there is not a ton we can do about that. I am in full agreement but all I can do is politely suggest things. Beyond that it is up to them.

It was you and a two other kite instructor causing the problem, but you specifically were the biggest problem, the other two instructors, moved when I asked them politely the first time. The foreign kiteboards camped downwind of the windsurfers caused no issue on the weekends while I was there.

All I'm asking is that you follow the norm and what has been asked of you guys before, don't run your lessons through the area with other water users, specifically the windsurfers. Take them way down wind, or if it's not filled in, you are on skis, you can take them well upwind. I'll happy come by and talk to you next time I'm up at the lake.

[more force 4]

Winddude, you may be the only one who has a problem with this. Having a student mostly in the water with a ski doing donuts around them can require an unplanned gybe in the middle of the lake, by the time you've gone back the way you just came and then gybed again they will be downwind and no longer an obstruction. If there were 6 or 8 or more out in the same place at the same time, yes that might be a problem, but its never more than two in the main WS corridor. The kite schools provide invaluable safety for all water users and they have to be able to earn a living. Legally, a student with instructor might be a "vessel not under command" and therefore have right-of-way anyway but why even go there? Just point high and go above them or gybe or try a slidey-spinny thing ending up the other way and stay the hell away from them.

[winddude]

Winddude, you may be the only one who has a problem with this. Having a student mostly in the water with a ski doing donuts around them can require an unplanned gybe in the middle of the lake, by the time you've gone back the way you just came and then gybed again they will be downwind and no longer an obstruction. If there were 6 or 8 or more out in the same place at the same time, yes that might be a problem, but its never more than two in the main WS corridor. The kite schools provide invaluable safety for all water users and they have to be able to earn a living. Legally, a student with instructor might be a "vessel not under command" and therefore have right-of-way anyway but why even go there? Just point high and go above them or gybe or try a slidey-spinny thing ending up the other way and stay the hell away from them.

This time it was 3 lessons in the same corridor at the same time, and always 1 was at each end right where you want to gybe or do a move. And when i asked marty to move polity the first time he started yelling, the second time politely more yelling...

The easy solution is for the kite lessons to stay away from that windsurfing corridor, because often the student is not in control, and spending a lot of time in the water and the kite down.


Maui kite association recommends,
"Windsurfers, and Other Sailing Craft. Situation: When you encounter another sailing craft, you should give way.
Definition: A kite is technically a sailing vessel, BUT the lines, large window, and unpredictability, generally make them incompatible with operating close to other sailboats.

What to do: give way to other sailing craft, keep large buffers between you and other sailing craft. Moderate you speed when close to other sailing vessels, and ride in a predictable pattern. Never fly your kite over a windsurfer or sailing boat. you could clip their mast or worse. Otherwise you should observe normal sailing rules." - http://www.mauikiteboardingassociation. ... rules.html

I've contacted the IKO to find out what their guidelines are for running lessons in crowded areas.

[KUS]

can we move all this .......stuff....into this different thread Thank you

and IMHO safety issues, yahooos, vehicle/boat concerns, noise and crime control need to be dealt with by the park management.....that's in their job description and why they get paid

please report your concerns to the attendant and forward "rule" suggestions to them for posting. We have no authority to post or enforce anything.

[winddude]

Another option is reporting the offending instructors to the IKO, when they are certified.

"During the ITC, the instructor are taught NOT to teach around windsurfers." - IKO International Kiteboarding Organization

I've attached the form if anyone else wishes to make a complaint.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B42sJl ... sp=sharing

The completed form can be sent to . All cases are kept anonymous.

[more force 4]

That is ridiculous Lawrence, learn to pick your fights.

[GWIND]

MoFo 1111. I think you meant nose. 👃🏼

[winddude]

That is ridiculous Lawrence, learn to pick your fights.

I am. The island is one of the better places to windsurf in Canada and access to windsurfing spots is the reason I moved here. I'm not going to let some unprofessional, inconsiderate and unsafe kite instructor ruin it for me. I'm trying really hard to do it the right way.