Localism
Atomic, I hold you in high regard. I know you to be a reasonable person and with that I don't doubt for a second that if you witnessed someone kiting in a certain way that the truth would be close to what you described. I also trust you well enough that if you ever told me that you were threatened with violence and vandalism, I would believe you. Please understand that I have four "Atomic" level people in my world that on five separate occasions have recounted the exact same experiences to me. Five!
My post earlier today was trying to point out that people seem to be justifying the vandalism and threats of violence that has occurred.
Would love to catch up with you man, it would sadden me if we paint ourselves into separate corners.
I don't know how to use this page very well to copy and paste correctly:
Windwave: .......... No respect will leave your tires flat and give you a bloody nose. - Monday March 02 [2020], 9:42AM
*I will acknowledge that on the original post in 2020, 8 hours later he posted "jk"
Atomic-Chomik: I can't take it anymore. OTlunch, nobody ever on here has said vandalism and all this bullshit is ok, but you just did. Further to the point if you think the affected party was just minding his own business and out of nowhere was attacked, you have no idea of the back story for better or worse. the idea of respecting locals is really akin to just showing manners and respect to those who have gone before you. ex. up in cb, as a kiter, we understand that local windsurfers use the main peak as their main wave spot. The group of us respect that and give them all the room to move there we can. respect. anybody who thinks they have priority over surfers in a lightwind lineup is both full of themselves and a danger(or totally ignorant)-period, no matter who. What happened out west was cowardly and disappointing, but not a total surprise given the history with kiters and surfers out there. Somebody please be the bigger man/woman and take the high ground.
My post earlier today was trying to point out that people seem to be justifying the vandalism and threats of violence that has occurred.
Would love to catch up with you man, it would sadden me if we paint ourselves into separate corners.
I don't know how to use this page very well to copy and paste correctly:
Windwave: .......... No respect will leave your tires flat and give you a bloody nose. - Monday March 02 [2020], 9:42AM
*I will acknowledge that on the original post in 2020, 8 hours later he posted "jk"
Atomic-Chomik: I can't take it anymore. OTlunch, nobody ever on here has said vandalism and all this bullshit is ok, but you just did. Further to the point if you think the affected party was just minding his own business and out of nowhere was attacked, you have no idea of the back story for better or worse. the idea of respecting locals is really akin to just showing manners and respect to those who have gone before you. ex. up in cb, as a kiter, we understand that local windsurfers use the main peak as their main wave spot. The group of us respect that and give them all the room to move there we can. respect. anybody who thinks they have priority over surfers in a lightwind lineup is both full of themselves and a danger(or totally ignorant)-period, no matter who. What happened out west was cowardly and disappointing, but not a total surprise given the history with kiters and surfers out there. Somebody please be the bigger man/woman and take the high ground.
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Atomic-Chomik
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Roger that OtLunch. Its difficult to come across as nin-positional with these online...things. I love the kind words and that is Respect.
I've actually found since this whole incident came up, there has been an excess of kindness and consideration out on the water and at the beach. Maybe we can keep it up and our worlds will be just a bit better. The refreshing thing coming from surfing to kiting was the comraderier of stoke shared by wind enthusiasts. I'm grateful f that.
I have not read the whole thread and I don't think I will. I
love ya all...and hope you never drop in in me.
hahahahah
Atomic
I've actually found since this whole incident came up, there has been an excess of kindness and consideration out on the water and at the beach. Maybe we can keep it up and our worlds will be just a bit better. The refreshing thing coming from surfing to kiting was the comraderier of stoke shared by wind enthusiasts. I'm grateful f that.
I have not read the whole thread and I don't think I will. I
love ya all...and hope you never drop in in me.
hahahahah
Atomic
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MartyD
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So trying to move forward from this. Clearly there are differing opinions regarding right of way in the waves. How can we come to a mutual agreement between both parties that does not involve vandalism, threats or violence?
My thinking comes from riding waves in many popular locations worldwide. There is a rotating mass of wind-users(kite, windsurf, wingers) circling with about 1/4 of the circle entering the wave area. When in this 1/4 circle users line up on the waves and get into position. Once waves start forming and everyone gets ready to ride. From this point you are locked into the wave you are on.
If a user loses power or cannot maintain the speed of the wave they drop off and out of rotation.
If the wave they are in is not the best and they want the wave behind them it would be called "fading", it is frowned upon and bad etiquette. It would be taking the wave away from somebody already on it and causing them to fade the rider behind them.
After you ride your wave you ride downwind of the break and stay out of the way of other riders then enter back into the rotation looking to get into another wave.
If your wave is not the best or you see a better one coming behind it you DO NOT TURN BACK OUT INTO THE BREAK.
At Margaret River, Ho'okipa, Cape Sebastian, Punta San Carlos, etc this is the worst rule to break. It is called "short tacking" and will quickly make you the least popular guy on the beach.
Waves are to be taken in from the outside, not waiting on shore and taking them from the inside.
This is assuming things are busy and every wave is being taken. If there are empty waves or it is not crowded then these rules can be fudged if you are not interfering with another users rotation.
Also giving way to windsurfers, wingers, and less skilled riders. It is harder for them to position compared to kites. Letting them take a few they are going for even if you have the line will make for smiles all around.
Surfers if they still happen to be out have right of way over all wind-users. They are to be very clearly avoided and given a wide berth if sharing waves.(I am guilty on this one I admit it)
These are rules that I have observed from many popular wave sailing locations. I assume they have windsurfing roots but that is just an assumption. If anyone has more info on this or would like to add then please correct and amend.
We got an idea of the surf rules, but seeing as we are dynamic and not static, I dont think they can really apply as written. Closest to the peak means I can stand on the point and wait till the best wave comes and tack out and take it before the rider in rotation reaches it. Not really fair or safe with riders coming from both directions onto the same wave.
How can we combine these two thinkings to a spot where everyone agrees is fair?
Please I would like input from kiters, windsurfers, wingers and surfers to how we can all get along and be in harmony out there.
I'm not saying my way is "right", it is just what I have observed at every other wave spot I have sailed.
On the day in question it was actually the best day I have ever had out there. Unreal sets with mostly smiling faces and tons of stoke. It was comparable to days I have had a world class locations. I am truly out there because I love doing it and enjoy sharing the stoked with everyone else doing it. I think that is the case for most of us out there but sometimes emotions get the better of us.
If I ever cut anybody off or "burned them", it was not intentional. Maybe we disagree about right if way but I am always willing to have a calm civil discussion about it. Things to not have to escalate to violence or vandalism.
We are all water users. We are here for the same reason. We use different toys but we are are chasing the stoke and the psyc at the end of the day.
My thinking comes from riding waves in many popular locations worldwide. There is a rotating mass of wind-users(kite, windsurf, wingers) circling with about 1/4 of the circle entering the wave area. When in this 1/4 circle users line up on the waves and get into position. Once waves start forming and everyone gets ready to ride. From this point you are locked into the wave you are on.
If a user loses power or cannot maintain the speed of the wave they drop off and out of rotation.
If the wave they are in is not the best and they want the wave behind them it would be called "fading", it is frowned upon and bad etiquette. It would be taking the wave away from somebody already on it and causing them to fade the rider behind them.
After you ride your wave you ride downwind of the break and stay out of the way of other riders then enter back into the rotation looking to get into another wave.
If your wave is not the best or you see a better one coming behind it you DO NOT TURN BACK OUT INTO THE BREAK.
At Margaret River, Ho'okipa, Cape Sebastian, Punta San Carlos, etc this is the worst rule to break. It is called "short tacking" and will quickly make you the least popular guy on the beach.
Waves are to be taken in from the outside, not waiting on shore and taking them from the inside.
This is assuming things are busy and every wave is being taken. If there are empty waves or it is not crowded then these rules can be fudged if you are not interfering with another users rotation.
Also giving way to windsurfers, wingers, and less skilled riders. It is harder for them to position compared to kites. Letting them take a few they are going for even if you have the line will make for smiles all around.
Surfers if they still happen to be out have right of way over all wind-users. They are to be very clearly avoided and given a wide berth if sharing waves.(I am guilty on this one I admit it)
These are rules that I have observed from many popular wave sailing locations. I assume they have windsurfing roots but that is just an assumption. If anyone has more info on this or would like to add then please correct and amend.
We got an idea of the surf rules, but seeing as we are dynamic and not static, I dont think they can really apply as written. Closest to the peak means I can stand on the point and wait till the best wave comes and tack out and take it before the rider in rotation reaches it. Not really fair or safe with riders coming from both directions onto the same wave.
How can we combine these two thinkings to a spot where everyone agrees is fair?
Please I would like input from kiters, windsurfers, wingers and surfers to how we can all get along and be in harmony out there.
I'm not saying my way is "right", it is just what I have observed at every other wave spot I have sailed.
On the day in question it was actually the best day I have ever had out there. Unreal sets with mostly smiling faces and tons of stoke. It was comparable to days I have had a world class locations. I am truly out there because I love doing it and enjoy sharing the stoked with everyone else doing it. I think that is the case for most of us out there but sometimes emotions get the better of us.
If I ever cut anybody off or "burned them", it was not intentional. Maybe we disagree about right if way but I am always willing to have a calm civil discussion about it. Things to not have to escalate to violence or vandalism.
We are all water users. We are here for the same reason. We use different toys but we are are chasing the stoke and the psyc at the end of the day.
Not localism.. it's called respect
What a hot topic!
Unfortunately I have to pop the bubble here..the latest incident has nothing to do with localism but rather respect.
Self respect and respect of others. Local or not, as a human, you should respect other humans.
NOT DROP IN On THEM THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY THEY HAVE AFTER ALREADY APOLOGIZING AND OFFERING A " PEACE OFFERING" FOR BEING A DOUCHE.
Unfortunately some humans don't understand respect and misunderstandings occur.
I would also encourage you all to read my entire thread from LAST YEAR..you will notice the key info not mentioned anywhere on these threads." What I've seen in the past"
It's all about safety and leaving the beach safe and sound
Unfortunately I have to pop the bubble here..the latest incident has nothing to do with localism but rather respect.
Self respect and respect of others. Local or not, as a human, you should respect other humans.
NOT DROP IN On THEM THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY THEY HAVE AFTER ALREADY APOLOGIZING AND OFFERING A " PEACE OFFERING" FOR BEING A DOUCHE.
Unfortunately some humans don't understand respect and misunderstandings occur.
I would also encourage you all to read my entire thread from LAST YEAR..you will notice the key info not mentioned anywhere on these threads." What I've seen in the past"
It's all about safety and leaving the beach safe and sound
respect ? safety ? - flattening tires, smashing windows will not bring respect, only hatred & retribution. Those days are gone, we live in the age of litigation and that kind of behaviour will land you in jail or at the very least thousands in legal fees. It has happened before out west. Deal with it Mano to Mano and leave the rest of the water community out of it ..
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Atomic-Chomik
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Atomic-Chomik
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- Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:12 pm
right of way
Martyd- enough. We have all seen erroneous moves from yourself kiting out west. Every single kiter out there, including your friends too(and still are). It has in fact been a topic of discusion for a while. Let it die.
You've put your best foot forward and good on you-respect. Now let dead dogs lie. The rest of it will figure itself out now that the police are involved . Please.
You've put your best foot forward and good on you-respect. Now let dead dogs lie. The rest of it will figure itself out now that the police are involved . Please.
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Boardsportjunkie
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