Input from all interested users please. ROW in waves

[MartyD]

So in the hopes of keeping the peace and everybody having input, I would like to start an open discussion regarding ROW(right of way) in the waves.
Tell me what is wrong, tell me what is right, tell me what to change. If everybody has input then I think we can come to a consensus so we can all have fun out there.
This is what I think:

My thinking comes from riding waves in many popular locations worldwide. There is a rotating mass of wind-users(kite, windsurf, wingers) circling with about 1/4 of the circle entering the wave area. When in this 1/4 circle users line up on the waves and get into position. Once waves start forming and everyone gets ready to ride. From this point you are locked into the wave you are on.
If a user loses power or cannot maintain the speed of the wave they drop off and out of rotation.
If the wave they are in is not the best and they want the wave behind them it would be called "fading", it is frowned upon and bad etiquette. It would be taking the wave away from somebody already on it and causing them to fade the rider behind them.
After you ride your wave you ride downwind of the break and stay out of the way of other riders then enter back into the rotation looking to get into another wave.
If your wave is not the best or you see a better one coming behind it you DO NOT TURN BACK OUT INTO THE BREAK.
At Margaret River, Ho'okipa, Cape Sebastian, Punta San Carlos, etc this is the worst rule to break. It is called "short tacking" and will quickly make you the least popular guy on the beach.
Waves are to be taken in from the outside, not waiting on shore and taking them from the inside.
This is assuming things are busy and every wave is being taken. If there are empty waves or it is not crowded then these rules can be fudged if you are not interfering with another users rotation.
Also giving way to windsurfers, wingers, and less skilled riders. It is harder for them to position compared to kites. Letting them take a few they are going for even if you have the line will make for smiles all around. I found out winging in Mexico this year how much harder is compared to a kite. Just let them have it, we got it easy.
Surfers if they still happen to be out have right of way over all wind-users. They are to be very clearly avoided and given a wide berth if sharing waves.(I am guilty on this one, I admit it)
These are rules that I have observed from many popular wave sailing locations. I assume they have windsurfing roots but that is just an assumption. If anyone has more info on this or would like to add then please correct and amend.
We got an idea of the surf rules, but seeing as we are dynamic and not static, I dont think they can really apply as written. Closest to the peak means I can stand on the point and wait till the best wave comes and tack out and take it before the rider in rotation reaches it. Not really fair or safe with riders coming from both directions onto the same wave.
How can we combine these two thinkings to a spot where everyone agrees is fair?
Please I would like input from kiters, windsurfers, wingers and surfers to how we can all get along and be in harmony out there.
I'm not saying my way is "right", it is just what I have observed at every other wave spot I have sailed

[tempy]

Marty, I think there should be a parallel and just as / more important discussion around safety for a couple of reasons - the safety of folks in the water and on the beach as well as the “ perception” of safety from an access to beaches perspective. I.E. if regualtors see conflict and risk they may close off access.

I posted this last time around:

“When you are on a craft that has advantages, there is a responsibility to use that "power" wisely , in my view anyway.

When you SUP surf, don't hog waves and make sure you are careful with the larger board. Also, call sets if you are standing and see them earlier.

On a windsurfer, don't come from behind on swell and snake surfers and SUP surfers.

On a kite, don't use your mobility to snake everyone else and remember your 20 m safe zone.

On a foil - well, just keep that machete away from everyone.

It is mostly common sense. “

The thing about “ safe zones” on kites and the like ( for example) is that experts don’t think it applies to them as it should to newbies. Granted, there is a fundamental difference in risk. The problem is if other kiters see an expert doing something, they think it is ok for them as well.

And, bad stuff still happens to expert kiters as well.

I predict some issues with wingdinging coming up because it is easier even than kiting and we are going to see a gaggle of folks on these craft who don’t understand or care about port / starboard or upwind / downwind “ rights of way”.

When you have folks on foils heading up and downwind across “ normal” paths of travel, it is a crash waiting to happen.

I accept I am throwing out more potential issues here without offering solutions.

It would be helpful to have discussions about these things as well in a productive, collaborative way.

For context , I windsurf foil, windsurf, kite and ( hopefully this summer) kite foil, and so I am interested in navigating all these tricky issues respectfully.

[JL]

https://mauikiteboardingassociation.com ... way-rules/

[tempy]

Wow, JL, that is comprehensive.

If you read between the lines, these rules seem to be designed to ensure access to beaches I.E. satisfies the regulators.

[grantmac]

https://mauikiteboardingassociation.com ... way-rules/

I see those broken all the time. Especially flying kites over windsurfers, that's why I hate passing to leeward.
Boosting onto waves isn't mentioned but should be strictly forbidden unless the entire area is empty.

[Hodaddy]

2006 PWA Rule Book – Issue 1
Part 3, Wave Performance Rules

{3.1.5} Possession
A board which is the first to sail shoreward immediately in front of the wave/swell is said
to have possession of that wave. When it is impossible to determine possession based
on the above, that board which is to windward shall have possession (in the event that
two competitors gybe simultaneously).

[juandesooka]

Some spots have a unique issue where you can wait upwind for a set. This is awkward, as it allows a form of short tacking. But it is also understandable how it happens … let’s say you’ve done the rotation 5 times in a row where the people in front of you and behind you got waves and you didn’t. Add in that some goof dropped in on you on your one shot. Or a windsurfer lined up the wave 2km outside and squeezed you out. You have been politely waiting and following the rules, and after an hour of everyone else scoring, you say F that….you start circling the point waiting for a set. Now everyone else doing the rotation is messed up, as they go through the point and have to circle back outside. This then blocks the people behind them. The rotation is now destroyed and it’s a free for all. Tempers boil over. The funnest thing in the world becomes the worst day ever. Our white rich male privilege is blocked!

One solution is communication: use hand gestures to make it clear what’s going on, “I am taking this one”, “you go, I am taking the next one”, “I am not going at all, you go for it”. Sometimes you are even close to enough to shout and be heard. F bombs are rarely helpful at this point. If/when the others don't understand, because it's hard to communicate clearly out there: have a polite and friendly and informative conversation on the beach with them after. Educate them. Don't be a dick about it unless it is truly warranted.

A second solution is the KARMA Rule: if you know someone is having a bad day or they just got out because they were stuck at work / looking after sick kids or you see they just got screwed over 5 sets in a row…..wave them into as et wave even if you have priority. You will be amazed at how the day’s vibe changes when you gift someone a wave. And when someone gifts you a set wave in this situation, the radness is over the top.

Golden rule: treat others as you wish to be treated, we actually all can get along.

[grantmac]

So how do you deal with that person who parks and grabs wave after wave without a care for anyone else? Especially when they stay upwind and closest to peak of basically every set because their equipment allows them to do it?

[juandesooka]

So how do you deal with that person who parks and grabs wave after wave without a care for anyone else? Especially when they stay upwind and closest to peak of basically every set because their equipment allows them to do it?

"If/when the others don't understand, because it's hard to communicate clearly out there: have a polite and friendly and informative conversation on the beach with them after. Educate them. Don't be a dick about it unless it is truly warranted."

That's pretty much all you can do. Maybe bring in some others as neutral observers to back it up and show consensus. Standing in a circle yelling and pushing probably isn't going to help much.

[nanmoo]

Even on a busy day there are unridden set waves. The rotation usually gets stacked up with a big void between last and first, so when you see that happen you just need to do a half tack, offset yourself and then it's all about a little patience and making the most of the non-set waves which are often plenty fun if you give them a chance.

[JillL]

Juandesooka - as someone who is not a skilled waverider yet and very conscious of not doing the 'wrong' thing in a ROW wave situation, I agree with you. I've had days where I don't get a wave for an hour, simply because I'm riding with other aggressive, skilled kiters who fudge ROW just enough to take every good wave that comes thru. It won't kill us to give one away every now and again.

[Hodaddy]

Juandesooka and Nanmoo. I like your vibe!!! Common sense!!!

[GWIND]

Nitnag lake should be fun this summer with all the new foil sports ! I am still working on a foiling laser. Nonmoo will you be the Referee?

[more force 4]

G but the foils can be way up in the bay in two tacks or or way down past the village in one foiling drift, right out of the way of the lawnmowers and boosters. I don't think it will be much of a problem, much more easily spread out than when beam reaching was the b-all.

Laser has too much swing weight, there was a video making the rounds a few months ago of a foiling Optimist.

[GWIND]

Yes mf but everyone loves camera point. And yes, l saw the optimist and it looks very interesting