Nitinaht 2014: Road/Camp updates

[KUS]

Yeah, pretty first world I'd say ....

EDIT: tbrown beat me to it !

well, instead I'd say it fits with the typical Canadian apathy to just continue to accept increases in fees and costs for just about EVERYTHING.....most of these we are powerless against, some have a decent reason, others are not worth fighting....this one you might actually be able to do something about it and with a decent business case.....yes I can pay it and it won't (yet) break the bank....do I want to? Lessee....I'd rather drink a cold case of beer instead....oh wait, that's in the states where I can get a cold six pack of tall boys for $6, here it costs around $15 DING DING....hello

wait, when did I get a raise last? Hmm, I think there was some talk about "no raises for public servants, all wages frozen until....hell freezes over or...if you don't like it get the fu&^K outta here then"...don't get me going, oh wait, too late.....it's bullshit, once again.

[Aboba]

Poor Jessica is likely now having a bad day.

[more force 4]

Re: 1st world crises, it seems to me that there is a large contingent of BWDers who, on going to the Gorge, always camp in an abandoned gravel pit rather than paying the reasonable amounts for the state parks.....

[tbrown]

Re: 1st world crises, it seems to me ...

And do these folks whine about the how unfair the system is? There's a huge difference between CHOOSING to be a cheap bugger, and railing against the system. Never mind that there may be other reasons for picking a quieter, less busy, less policed space. (never been there, just guessing.)

I'm a newbie here, but I'm constantly amazed at how OLD the average windsurfer/kiteboarder is. In theory, we're a smart, well-off group. Is there really nothing more productive for us to do than whine about a $10 user pay fee? If that IS what we want to make a fuss about, can we we at least be constructive about it, instead of trying to make the one person who's actually talking to us have a "bad day"?

(edit: my apologies if that "bad day" post was actually supposed to be "in sympathy", I don't want to be putting words into anyone's mouth. ... in fact I've probably already said far more than I should have.)

-Tom

[KUS]

: Yes, it is not about the money really. There's a lot of history here and, I guess speaking for myself, no, it is not about the money. For sure because I have some of that although others don't, is about the principle. There was an effective system but that system was declined for politicsl reasons In favor of another system that now costs money. In addition it does not do the job as well. A sign of our times perhaps, and yes I am old, but I'm not too old to fight for my right to surf Or to use the well-paid and regularly taxed access to my provincial lands that I help to sustain Through immense taxes and fees that have already been applied.
As for the gravel pit, that is a user choice and it would not be mine. There are many places that can be sought at low or no cost that are far preferable And frankly far superior to the ones you pay for at $25 a night But this is not about that, it is about Nitinat which is a very special place, A place that needs taking care of and not to be capitalized on

[JL]

Thanks Kus Well said.

[tbrown]

Anyone know anyone who would be interested in putting in a competing bid for maintaining the facilities/site? It seems to me that would be the logical alternative. I've spent a few minutes going through previous threads and this certainly has been going on forever.

KUS's "There's a lot of history here" is accurate. A cousin of mine used to run a business maintaining sites like nitnat. He's bright and far from lazy, but it can't be that complicated

I hate to suggest competing with the local band, but if the job isn't getting done, and hasn't been for years (decades?), then something should be changed.

I'm not an outdoor, camping kinda guy. Nor am I good at social networking... but I suspect there are lots of folks here that are good at both. Ideas? Contacts?

-Tom

[JL]

The windsurfing association managed it for a few years. Vic http://www.bigwavedave.ca/gallery/displ ... play_media was our ON SITE host & the place was in great shape. Dale http://www.bigwavedave.ca/gallery/displ ... play_media was running it 5 years ago & also did a fine job. Currently the Dididaht have an 'agreement' for the entire area so I don't think management is open to the public. http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/200088181.html http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/topic/ ... tidaht.pdf Please read: Page# 19 6-3 & 6-5

[tbrown]

looking through that interim agreement... I'm surprised how small the parcels of land are... the Ditidaht aren't getting a huge chunk of land, in fact the FSR site takes up a chunk of the Malachan parcels ... the Doobah chunk is 350 hectares, nothing to sneeze at. But the Malachan parcels only total about 70 hectares... and the FRS/windsurfing site is included in that.

Hhm, I suppose I should address the site specifically. It appears that ownership of the site is transferred to the band, but that the band has to "...ensure that after the Closing Date the Winsurfer Lands are used, operated and maintained as a campground, recreation site and public access point to Nitinat Lake in a manner consistent with the current use of the lands". (that's from paragraph 5.19, page 16).

In that context, it would make sense that the Ministry might not be interested in have any site operator other than the band. I sent an email query to Jessica asking about that... I highly doubt she makes those decisions, but I did ask to be referred along.

That said, there should still be lots of timber forest licensed land around the lake, maybe there will be another site in the more distant future? I haven't been there yet so I can't say how ideal the current site is. I doubt it was created with windsurfing (much less kiteboarding) in mind. Then again, I don't know how the sites for the FRS sites were chosen/created.


-Tom

[JL]

My kids used to call it Natures playground . Old stumps with stairs cut into them & gardens sprouting from them. Trails through big trees , swimming holes in the River & Herman's Hobbit like sauna & the steady wind every day @ 11 a.m. keeps the bugs out.

[tbrown]

Sorry, I hate being verbose, but don't really want to post Jessica's answer out of context. She pointed out that the transfer HAS taken place. The land IS Ditidaht owned. ... which of course puts the nitnat site in a completely different context than all the other FRS sites.

The inquiry:

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 13:22:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Brown
To:
Subject: nitnat ... "windsurfer park" / recreation site


I've been taking part in some of the windsurfer/kiteboard discussion about
the nitnat lake site.

There seems to be some question as to whether there is any chance of getting
a more responsive operator for the site. I don't have the full history, but
I believe the windsurfers/kiteboarders used to look after it. Recently
management was given to the local band... and it seems the facilities have
been suffering under the new management. (Yes, this may be an overly
simplistic summary.) I believe the windsurfers/kiteboarders would very much
like to resume the site management.

Yes, the recent price increase has helped fan the discussion. The ministry
should be better informed than I am, but it seems totally illogical that the
one heavily used site should need a price INCREASE? One would expect the
remote, rarely used sites to be the expensive ones to maintain on a per-user
basis.

I understand that some of the users have been so disgusted with the
facilities that they wanted to speak to management before paying. That
doesn't support a price increase to provide more (badly managed)
facilities... although I will agree the site is heavily used.

Anyhow, my only real question is whether the ministry would seriously
consider a competing bid for management? If site management is all wrapped
up in the treaty negotiations and has been handed to the Ditidaht as a sign
of good will, then obviously there's no point trying to put together an
alternate site operator. :(

If you're not the person to address this to, please let me know where I
should send it.

Thank you for your time.

-Tom

And the response:

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 21:23:32 +0000
From: "McKierahan, Jessica FLNR:EX"
To: Tom Brown
Subject: Re: nitnat ... "windsurfer park" / recreation site

Hi Tom

The site was given to The Ditidaht First Nation as treaty settlement land
approx. 2 years ago. I am unsure when the official/final handover will
occur, but at that point it will be owned by Ditidaht and no longer a Forest
Service Recreation Site.

It is a unique situation as we try and bridge the gap between now and when
they take over the property completely. I know they have put a lot of their
own capital costs into the site this year expanding sites, setting up a
water line and a site host shack, with more improvements in the works. I am
trying to support the Ditidaht during the transition of the site while it
remains a provincial recreation site.

Discussions on the best way to achieve this balance between the ministry of
forest and the Ditidaht are ongoing. I truly appreciate the feedback on the
site as we go through this process though and am hopeful that in the end
regardless of ownership that the site is maintained to a higher standard for
all the campers.

It might be that the point needs to be made that we're not asking for $$/capital improvements, just outhouses that you dare to use and maybe ?? (fill it in)

[JL]

Thanks Tom. If you haven't enjoyed Nitinat I recommend it. Bring your own T.P.

[skywalker]

I spoke to Bryan, CEO of the Ditidaht Development corp. Here's what I understand:

The Ditidaht have wanted to make imporvements to the camp site for years, but were not allowed to by parks and recreation. In fact the only way there is water is that it comes from the village, which is federally inspected. Parks and Rec wouldn't allow a new well.

Right now Nitnat is in limbo with neither side (parks and rec and the Ditidaht) having total ownership of it. This is causing a lot of problems with site managment.

Give these guys the benefit of the doubt, once they really own the park, and have run it for a year then we can start asking for changes.

I have actually lost my pony by the way, if anyone sees it.

[mlaanela]

So how is the wind today? Is it likely to be worth a day trip from Nanaimo on Sunday?

[eksrae]

It was awesome yesterday. I would say its worth the drive