hand placement

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mayday
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hand placement

Post by mayday »

Newbie with about 8 or 9 sessions. Am able to get up and ride if there is enough wind with reasonable results - i.e fly until run out of room. Just now thinking about tackling a jibe - currently I am using a Starboard 5.0 that has 5 hand loops. For whatever reason I've been using handles 1 and 5, with both hands facing the same way - which makes the hand transition a bit awkward since there is not enough space in the front loop for both hands at the same time.
So, I'm assuming it's one of three scenarios;
1) just work on the transition, awkward but no other option
2) get used to having one hand facing forward, the other back - that way it's a finger to finger switch
3) Use handles 2 and five, the on the transition go to a 1 and five.

Thoughts/ideas/suggestions?
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Re: hand placement

Post by juandesooka »

My advice for initially learning to jibe, aka turning. Keep it simple!

Switching hands is just back hand forward, then front hand back. You don’t hold a handle with both hands, or reverse, or switch handles.

Don’t try to do a turn and foot switch at same time to start.

Practice on land first to get the dance moves down. On foot and even better on a skateboard.

First get comfortable riding downwind with wing luffed. Turns then come easy. Bear off downwind with some speed, with dominant foot forward. Glide for a bit. Then, without changing stance, try little turns back and forth. You’re now carving, the basic move for swell riding. When you are facing the wind, that’s toeside riding, when wind is at your back it is heelside riding. Most riders only go toeside with dominant foot forward.

Now try that again with some speed, again with dominant foot forward. Ride downwind with wing overhead, depowered, holding with just the front hand. Turn slightly to toeside (wind in your face)…glide for a few seconds….then grab front handle with your other hand and drop the former hand. Glide for a second or two. Then grab rear handle with your former front hand and re -engage wing to get some power. It will feel weird, as your body is twisted unusually when riding toeside. You lose a bit of power compared to your normal stance, it is harder to stay upwind.

At that point, you can let board touch down and then switch feet, shuffle your back foot forward and then your front foot back. Re engage power and up and off you go. You can later work on doing it with speed, and then with the foot switch while flying. And then later still doing the foot switch simultaneous in the turn – or don’t bother. I do my foot switch after a heelside to toeside turn, or before for a toeside to heelside turn.

Clear as mud I am sure ... way easier to do it then try to explain it! :-)
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Re: hand placement

Post by mayday »

Sorry, guess I didn't make the question clearer - if we ignore (for the moment) all the other little steps necessary for a successful jibe, and just focus on the front hand transfer.
Assuming you use the same handle for both tacks, then for at least a brief second, you have to have both hands on that one handle. Not an issue if you have lots of room, but with large gloves and small handle creates a problem.
So my question is whether people use different grips for each hand, or different handles.
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Re: hand placement

Post by juandesooka »

You are over thinking it. The hand switch is so brief its not worth worrying about. You don't hold a handle with 2 hands. You don't need to use different handles. You don't need to reverse grip. Just switch.

You can also switch to front handle, wing luffed briefly, in between if you want to break it up. But don't need to.

Practice it on land first.
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Re: hand placement

Post by smartang »

I usually use an underhand on my front hand, and overhand on my back hand. However, when toeside tacking (not jibing) you're essentially clapping your hands over your head so you end up double overhand. For heelside tacking (again not jibing) I go into it double overhand just cause it feels more natural. You can also pass luff to luff behind your back for tacking. If I could only grab one handle I would go into the tack on the furthest forward handle and grab the second on the way out to help pull me out of it.

I actually had an idea for going into a wave tack with a clockwise twisted underhand grip on the front hand. No hand switch, so you come out of a heelside tack with an overhand grip on the front handle with what should be your back hand. Essentially a cheater luff riding toeside down the line.

For jibing, you have tons of time, assuming it's not 7knots. I would recommend switching to an underhand/overhand grip for leverage. For the palm to palm switch. I can't visualize a fast standard jibe going in double overhand. Except for the Heineken Jibe, which feels way better going into it double overhand. When on a wave faster than the wind it's actually easier to jibe luff to luff behind your back.

If I could only pick one handle per hand, I'd go into everything front hand on first handle and receiving hand on second handle for a little power on the transition. You may want to consider an armstrong carbon bar add to allow for more hand movement.

Beginners hold on to the main wing handles like it's a lifeline, just like kiters death gripping the bar when you only need 2 fingers. Watch the jdfollowcam vids and you'll see that cloud guy just dragging his wing around by the leash. When you're comfortably on foil cruising try going to luff and back to handles. Then try just letting go. Maintain glide, and pull the leash back in. You'll be surprised how much time you have if you don't panic.

I'm sure none of this made sense. So basically start by spending more time handling the wing on the beach, even in your back yard with no wind. Build that muscle memory and confidence.
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Re: hand placement

Post by Tsawwassen »

mayday wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:03 pm I am using a Starboard 5.0 that has 5 hand loops. For whatever reason I've been using handles 1 and 5, with both hands facing the same way -
Is it the FreeWing air? I have the 5.0 and use handles 4 and 2. Try switching your front hand before you jibe to an underhanded grip. When you get used to it you can throw the wing from one hand to the other easily. It just takes time but you'll get used to it. At first I went handle 2 to 1 but you get more power with that wing on handle 2, which helps when coming out of a jibe.
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Re: hand placement

Post by mayday »

"Is it the FreeWing air? I have the 5.0 and use handles 4 and 2. Try switching your front hand before you jibe to an underhanded grip. When you get used to it you can throw the wing from one hand to the other easily. It just takes time but you'll get used to it. At first I went handle 2 to 1 but you get more power with that wing on handle 2, which helps when coming out of a jibe."

Thanks for that advice, was helpful.
Got out for a session today and realized most of the issue was from using large bulky 3 finger gloves - basically impossible to use same grip direction on the same handle.
Tried to use different grips front/back hand, and that seemed to work a bit better.

Now of course the new issue is that apparently my balance depends heavily on the force of the wing, and as soon as I feather it, i over-balance and splash. Baby steps.
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