Do you think there is a reason why there is a certification process for kite instructors...? I thought that maybe it was all just a bunch of malarky having to pay all that money and spend a bunch of days learning how to teach people how to kite...(SARCASIM) That is why there are lessons from certified instructors...!!!

Boy really sad to read the lastest incindent and once again so preventable. It is easy to say always get an instructor, and of course that is simply the best choice, bar none...end of story. However it is very clear that people will and do not make the best choices, no matter what it is they are doin in life, hence this thread. With that said I also strongly believe that this thread is more than likely read only by those that have experience already as those that do not more than likely are unaware of this web site and the forum.

This I will say: I have been flying kites for some time now and feel that I am a compentent kite flier, by no stretch do I consider qualified to teach, and do not teach others. I will step in to give my two bits on something if I see issues with how a kite is being handled or whatever simply for the best interests of the kitehandler, and those around them, and usually try to do this in a calm and constructive manner. For those that have been around this sport for awhile we survived the "non" instructor era, some by miracles others by recovery or simply sheer luck. IF YOU CHOOSE to instruct or provide instruction to someone be very aware that you are basically taking responsibility for that person. Ruben I really feel for you and your friend, over the years at Nitinaht I have seen this situation over and over and over and the grief is always the same, I am so sorry for both of you and really hope the outcome is one of full recovery.

Billy is right, with the quality of instruction that is available today, once you have introduced that person to the trainer and they are interested in the next step, I feel that it is prudent of us to clearly advise that person to take lessons from the appropriate school, even if that means waiting until the season arrives. Winter in BC is definately NOT the time to learn due to the sheer unpredicatablitiy of the wind.

IN NO way is it my intention that this post suggests that this last incident was anyones fault, but is suggesting that "we" as a group should support and promote proper instruction for the safety of all those concerned.

MY BEST wishes for a speedy recovery for the individual injured and safe sailing for all of us.

Cheers

Dale

Thanks Dale for the tactful response to this thread ... All your points are valid & I respect your Nitinat experience ... I'm not a certified kite instructor ( though I do hold a certificate of competency as a mariner ) & would like to remind anyone taking any free help ( kiting) from me that you usually get what you pay for ... We all need to take responsibility for our own actions & in a sport where we are lofted through space while connected to a kite 'Safety' is a relative term ...

Sorry to hear that"
And know what it is like to see a friend get spanked by a kite.

I think it was nice of you to try and teach him , But there are steps
that are taken while teaching someone.

We all have to learn at one point and people who wish to learn are all
excited to get into the sport and have no idea about wind and the potential effects of it and the power.

Conditions are always changing this time of year


He could have maybe panic ed ,you said he was uncomfortable at the time and unsure about the controls?
Should have stepped back to see what maybe was making him uncomfortable and make him understand everything, "Theory about the kite?"

Maybe he has never actually practiced ejecting?

Most people who learn also launch full powered and makes the kite tend to fly a bit on the back lines which makes the kite hard to control?

And your right about taking control of the kite for him while going to the beach , May i suggest launching him on the beach , The grass can be like a skating rink when it is Wet .


A Tip for everyone " Would be to de power, Unhook before walking over any obstacles. It works great on coral reefs.

February already "" Nice.
See you on the Beach

I have to agree with what Kitesurferdale is saying, Reuben I'm sorry what happened with you and your friend. However what I'm noticing lately is the practice of people teaching their friends to kite is dangerous, when I was down in Baja the two major wipeouts I saw on the beach were when friends were trying to teach friends. My only hope with this thread is that people who were thinking of teaching there friends will show them the gear but tell them to take lessons.

& selling used equipment to a newbie is a little dodgy !!!

Crappy thing! Hope your friend's recovery will be complete

One of the things I have noted is that perhaps basic "wind" experience is underrated and should be an extra caution for anyone teaching a newbie who is NOT a flyer/glider/wsurfer or even sailor. The practice eject, depower, harness use, all those things come into play better when you appreciate wind, gusty conditions and know how to read what's going on.

And yes, the grass in wet conditions is scary as are the logs. Gusts at beaches in winter esp come seemingly out of nowhere. U cannot practice eject enough I don't think, even after all this time I wonder if the 'cling to survive' thing is gonna bite me bad one day yet.....and I chant 'let go' to myself and do the eject motions/get a buddy to yank the lines regularly when I rig and before I go out.

Personally I forget the learning thing in winter, for me as a cautious, seems like forever newbie kiter, I just put the stuff away and am patiently awaiting summer....again Even with good instruction a newbie (or as many very expert kiters) just wouldn't necessarily react correctly when confronted with a slip on the grass or a sudden winter gust so don't load up on the blame, Reuben.

All the best

and we probably do not have to mention that when you teach somebody, you do take a legal responsibility. Before you teach someone, think of the results it can have on your life is something goes wrong, is it worth it. certified instructors( not sure about kiting) get the legal advice, are insured, and have a system on how to teach you to be safe. as a friend teaching a buddy they do not have that legal protection.

Thanks all for the constructive input. Through another career I learned that dangerous accidents are almost always caused by more than one thing. Yes one or more things done differently could have prevented this but it was in fact the sum total of all things that led us both to this spot. In retrospect several things come to mind but one major one is that once you become a better kiter you forget how overwhelming it is as a newbie. Kus is right the tendency to panic and over control the kite is a major issue. I do not believe even schools can make people competent in this area after only a few days. I guess on some level I convinced my self his few hours of flying were enough to keep the kite in the air and that we were taking on an acceptable level of risk. A very big mistake by me. Just remember to ask yourself what is "acceptable risk" when death is the possible consequence.

Reuben

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
But things happen and it is a risky sport .

If an instructor feels like he is not ready for the next step
they go out of there way to make them comfortable
and not continue to get them on the water.

Hi
Sorry to hear your friend was injured. Hope he heals well and complete.

As a newbie to kiting, it is nice to see more experienced kiters write in articles such as this. gives myself and others a different perceptive.

As reuben has said after a few hours of instruction the impulse to hang on to that bar when things happen is overwhelming.

Its is also nice to see the promotion of instruction i personally believe its the way to go, sucks having to wait for spring but oh well my body intact means alot to me.(plus the wife would kill me if i broke something)

Kitesurferdale i would like to believe any one getting into this sport would read a safety thread

As a newbie thanks for this thread..

Mike

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xMJHuN3-rw[/youtube]
some solid info here.. make sure your area is clear..warning graphic

Bottom Line- novice kiters should not be teaching new kiters.

That should be the first part of the complete risk assessment: Ask "Am I able to effectively coach this person?" Perhaps had you stopped for a second to assess your instructional abilities you would have stopped at the trainer kite part of the learning progression. Perhaps had you properly done a risk assessment of the logs, powerlines, skating rink launching pad, wind(its winter at IV- when is it not gusty?) students abilities, state of mind (you mention- "At initial launch he seemed quite tentative and a little confused about the controls")
you would have taken other action. A good coach-trainer-instructor notices these details, acknowledges the risk carefully and makes the right decision! But this takes the proper Skills Knowledge Attitude and Experience for you- the trainer!

Just because you kite for a year without thrashing yourself completely doesnt mean you can teach kiting. Even if you are a trickster rock star doesnt mean you are an effective instructor.

The panic-overcontrol-LET GO- issue mentioned can be addressed through effective instruction, rehersal and coaching- from someone who knows how to be a kitesurfing instructor.

As an instructor teaching students (and being coached by other instructors) in the marine training biz I have often heard and said: "Dont become a training aid" In other words dont have the accident that becomes the story every one tells in class ( eg-'Did I tell you the one about the Coast Guard boat and Kitesurfer in Tofino?.. So what did we learn from that?' etc..) Your accident and experience is serving as an excellent aid to other peoples learning, at a price of course.

You should be commended for being honest and bringing the story to the community and focussing on mistakes made, rather than excuses given. Hiding the near miss, accidents, injuries, kitemares with friends for fear of reprisals doesnt really do any good.
And hopefully now that a lot of discussion is being generated people will ask the right questions before taking a friend out.

Shark Diver refers to legality: Part of that is about vicarious liability- and in the trainig world simply put: negligent instructors are getting legally nailed for their students mistakes.

Really sorry this happend to you and your friend.
The nightmare thing- been there last month when we had a "hazardous Occurance" on the water.. good luck.

ToesideT

Not much to add to this other than thanks for the positive words of advice. My friend is in very good spirits and as always he is truly a super person. Please continue to chime in with more positive words of wisdom. One last thing, I sure as hell never want this to happen again! to anyone.

Reuben

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