240 wrote:Was that you in my garbage can last night Gwind? I keep the empties in the garage.

Is it too much to ask that we stick to the topic and stop the abusive posts? There is a good discussion going on by some people and now is the time to give suggestions on improving the situation instead of just complaining about it.

GWIND wrote:Oh a little defensive are we, keep sitting on those hands. THAT was me 240, got your old hustler mags. Thanks for deleting my post, Hmmmm freedom of expression. Peace

GWIND you're not adding anything to this topic and if your post got deleted (not by me, but by one of the many moderators) then it was likely abusive or way off topic. If you read the registration info that you agreed to, then you will know that your posts can be removed for these reasons so you can complain about "freedom of expression" all you want.

Hopefully we can get back to a civilized debate here and come up with some suggestions for the future.

BWD You know I am correct, you are going to lose sailing spots if you don't get some control on the beaches. Doing nothing is NOT an option. Seems I've got your collective attention. Now about sitting on those hands.

http://www.mauikiteboardingassociation. ... elines.pdf http://kitesurfingschool.org/safety.htm ... Guidelines
http://www.tropical-paradise-kitesurfin ... lines.html

GWIND wrote:BWD You know I am correct, you are going to lose sailing spots if you don't get some control on the beaches. Doing nothing is NOT an option. Tugwell / Gordons season is coming you know what I'm saying

Actually no. Your posts now and in the past come across as more of a hatred towards kiters so no I don't know where you are coming from. I'm just saying stop being abusive and then your posts won't get deleted by the moderators. It's a fairly simple concept. Don't stop posting, just stop the abuse. There has been a good discussion here thanks to 57palm and to superdave, kitesurferdale etc.

GWIND wrote:Kuster is on board Team AGRO. YES

well, actually I tried the community group part where perhaps there would be at least some inferred authority by a recognized core to guide and reprimand those that threaten our access by irresponsible/poor choice actions. They also tried this back east with little success because of the F U factor, no teeth.
Given then this went nowhere and as KSD himself has stated, providing feedback for those to curtail/amend their actions is met with a resounding F%$# U, perhaps a not-so-gentle interaction may have more effect is all I was saying....but i see what u mean Dale/JL

Perhaps visualizing no kite access to the Dallas Road and IV waterfront and having to drive for every kiting sesh may motivate someone anew? yes, I'm with Gwind on this one, too many events, some not reported. It's not "if" but "when"

If you kiters do end up losing access to sites, all I can say is you better not take us windsurfers down with you. We've been using these beaches for about 30 years and we've never had a conflict and we want to keep it that way.

Wingnut...Don't lump us all into one group here...! Some of us do give a shit and are willing to try and educate the newcomers to the sport, but if the continued response is being told where to go and how to get there, then don't you think it is All (Windsurfers and Kitesurfers) of our responsibility to intervene when necessary? After all, we all use the same beaches don't we?
And Gwind...I'm not saying you are wrong in SOME of your points, but why not be a little more proactive and instead of complaining about things in front of your computer, do something at the beach when you see things happen... Wether you like it or not, we are all in the same boat!

Nicely said BK, thanks. Some good points there. Agreed, I think we should all take some more responsibility and talk to people if we see something that's not safe or right. I don't know the finer details of kiting, but I know when it's gusty or what an unsafe launch looks like. If they choose to ignore us, well then maybe the larger among us can take it further

This was an informative post for the most part. Now it seems to have become a s##t slinger.

I as a new kiter was reading the post hoping to get something from it that might in the end be of benefit to myself down the road. I dislike hurting myself or others, and as a new person to the sport would hate to see kiting spots lost.

What I am getting from this post now Is basically if you’re a new kiter Don’t kite anywhere in the Victoria, Saainch area. Now in one post I saw some one complaining also about new kiters in nitnat as well.
Ok I am at a loss here. Where do you suggest new kiters go kite?
I believe I have as much right to these spots as the next guy but dislike confrontation.

Ok I try to be informed about the sport the risks etc. I realize that Victoria in the winter is not the place to learn, so I took lessons down south (from a iko school) and still need to take some more. But will wait till spring and take from a local school (well was thinking nitnat) Read above on that note.

I have to agree with BWD as to keeping the post constructive instead of destructive.

That and all new kiters are not the same, but to group us all together is unfair.

Just my 2 cents worth

I see your point Wavebreaker... A good one at that!
It sounds to me that you are one of the more responsile newcomers to kiting... You have taken the first big step in getting lessons. Not to mention that you recognize the fact that you need more to be comfortable with the sport! GOOD ON YA!
If you approach this whole endevour with a healthy dose of respect not only for the conditions, but as well as what is being said... you will no doubt be out there with the rest of us in no time... Know your limits!

One of the draw backs of internet forums is that without seeing someone face to face things can easily be taken out of context and often be controversial or offensive to some. We do all need to remember this when we post as to not be too antagonistic. I was going to keep out of any more discussions but did want to respond to Jordan's seeming deliberately provocative post. Yes a did say that experience is no measure of skill or knowledge and did suggest that there is more to be learned than by practice alone. However if you noticed I did listen too and agree with everything in more experienced kiters posts. I do listen to experienced kiters and always have. The intent of my previous lengthy post was mainly in rebuttal to some unwelcome chastisement I was receiving.

The attitude that "I have years of experience so am not going to make a mistake" or belief that "stupid things are only done by stupid uninformed people" is just as dangerous as the newbie failing to listen to the voice of experience. I do feel the statistics back up my belief. Will experience make most people safer in general ? yes it surely will, but there will always be someone who has lots of experience and still does not get it. For example out of all the car drivers with years of experience on the roads how many do you feel are truly good drivers ? I know for sure that some have driven for years and are still feeble and just do not get it.

In addition, the intent of the chainsaw post was to promote the idea of improving safety overall for all of us. I did mention experience in an attempt to avoid the "great idea a bunch of morons with chainsaws" post, it seems to have backfired. As now posted I think it is absolute stupidity to have people at the lake launching upwind of a giant stump and everyone else on the beach. Why are the kiters upwind of the windsurfers ?? why after nearly fatal contact with that stump has it not been removed ? Yes a comunity group promoting windsport safety is a great idea but it does seem to have some paranoid resistance. Anyway, more food for though.


Reuben

BK I wasn't trying to lump you all together, I was aiming that at those who DON'T give a shit. I know a bunch of kiters who I have a mutual respect with.
That being said, I don't kite and have no interest in learning so do you really think joe kiter is going to take advice from a windsurfer?

Did you not read Dale's post regarding that stump? I suggest you do.
He has more chainsaw experience than probably all of us put together!

Wingnut... You know the conditions pretty well don't you? 30 years experience should be worth something!

is this what ya mean by agro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT1LXhgXPWs

I agree with BWD, these are important issues and are stimulating some good discussions and debate, but please refrain from below the belt personal attacks.

I think we need some stormy winds soon!

Ok thank you all for this discussion for what it has been worth. as for the stump, it really is a non issue as a good friend, my gf Erin and I were out there at the beach just before christmas and the stump has repositioned itself in a much better spot higher up on the beach out of the launch zone.

In reference to the new fella, yes you definately have the right as we all do, no one owns the water or a particular wave..etc etc, rather what I am saying and i think they are saying is that there are alot of newcomers that are not respecting the "unwritten rules of edicate" nor are they displaying safe sailing practices and to top it off also show poor attitude when approached. Yes the Victoria area is not the best for learning, especially in the winters, Nitinaht lake is the best bet on the Island for itsconsitant winds and friendly waters as your gear tends to wash up in the bay should something happen.... as do you (long walk though : )), you don't get washed/dragged out to sea. If you surf at all then you will be familiar with rip zones etc and I might suggest Chestermans as well on a moderate NW.... North Chestermans really as you have a fairly wide beach and the bay to end up in. Just ensure the beach is not super crowded. DO be informed that Long Beach typically is more gusty and often wind is predicted that doesnt show up, so rig appropriately.

As for windsurfers talking to Kiters, I do believe people will listen especially when approached in a friendly, non aggressive...(not kiting is unsafe and your an asshole for kiting) attitude. If you are uncomfortable with doing that, then talk to those that you share the mutual respect with and point out your concerns so that they can have the oportunity to either explain why it is done that way or even maybe deal with the situation. I do not mind people coming up to me to discuss their concerns in a reasonable manner, in fact on several occasions even though I no longer am associated with the campground people did approach me regarding kites launching in the windsurfer area, and all it took was for me to go down and talk to the people and all was solved, no agro...just a reasonable and respectable conversation.

As for windsurfers being around for 30 years with no problems kinda statement...maybe true, don't know haven't been in the scene that long but that is not the situation we all face now so why the comparsion? what purpose does that serve...kiting is here to stay and I don't think the people who control the beaches will give a @#$@ who is at fault, just a blanket closure...we all lose so lets work together for the common goal of mutual respect and safe sailing.

At the end of the day, isn't it all about everyone enjoying themselves, getting off the water safely with a massive smile on their face and sharing that stoke with friends and family? I know that is the case for me...this sport is sheer medicine ..... a medicine for my soul so to jepordize (sp?) that for myself or another due to unnessesary risk for my skill level just doesn't make sense to me.

Anyways, once again I wish all to be safe...happy and on the water!!!

Cheers

Dale