... "Life" . No. I've got that one answered already.

I was reading a review of a Fanatic Freewave 86 and it said: "Feels fast and lively underfoot with a great deal of drive off the fin."

Fast and lively I know about, but what does " .. a great deal of drive off the fin.." mean?

I would guess it means you can load up the fin with back foot pressure to accelerate without resulting in an immediate spinout, as modern designs are prone to do.

To add to what MF4 wrote, "drive" can also feel like lift from the fin; as though the board is being propelled forward easily. Multi fin boards tend to have less fin drive (at least in windsurfing with smaller area fins) and require the sailor to finesse the fins onto a plane and stand more upright over the board to gain forward speed. A board that has lots of drive will feel great for wider turns and blasting along, but will not be as loose in the turns as, say, a twin fin board. A less drivey board will want to lose speed quickly through a turn if sailor input is not active enough, but it will react to rail pressure faster.

THE FIN-- much talked about, Mo Fo 4 says the new board designs cause more spinouts. Hmmmm do they? or is it the fin size, shape and style. I have noticed that not many sailors change their fin when the change their sail size. Does the to small fin cause the board to spin out? For me it seems to. I just went down a fin size on my 90 litre, and it turns much better at speed, but it wants to spinout more with the 5.6 sail for sure. I can feel it underfoot. ( MFC free wave fins )

this is a feature that will appeal to the aging windsurfer demographic that is typically prone to leaving gear strewn about. in the case of leaving the board behind your van, the fin is built so tough you can actually drive right off it.

From my own experiences:

I have a MFC On-shore wave fin that I got from BWD that is identical in area (yeah I measured them so what!) to the MFC Freewave that came with my 91L FSW stick. The Onshore fin is yellow, swept, stumpy and wide at the base whereas the Freewave is longer, not as swept, and skinny at the base. The both discplace the same amount of water and thus are built with the same amount of material. As such, the freewave fin is 'flexier' at the tip and the onshore much more solid.

When transfering power into the fin, the freewave gives a lot of drive, whereas the onshore is snappy and responsive, and I can 'spin out' sideways on it easily, sometimes maintining the plane as it cavitates along. It almost feels like skidding your back tire while biking. If I keep my weight more centered and on top of the board, not levering out as hard, they both feel very similiar, though the freewave seems to offer more speed. What is interesting to me is that both fins have the same amount of area offerring resistance, and thus holding power against sideways motion in the water. The only thing that changes is the amount of leverage available and point where leverage occurs due to the difference in length.


This is old and ghetto, but valid

http://www.fortboise.org/windsurfing/spinout.faq.html

Nanmoo, as you probably know, area is only one component of sideways resistance - so is tip flex (as you note) and of course probably the biggest part is the foil cross-section shape. An F-18 fighter with a clean wing (no flaps or slots extended) has wings not much bigger than a Cessna 172, yet they support an enormous amount more weight, can tolerate many G's without stalling, and much more severe turbulence. Its not how big it is; its what you do with it!

I wish boards tests would use the same fins on each board within one genre, because the fins probably have more difference to the feel and performance than little changes to the rocker line, etc.

All the gurus talk about sailing with a SMALLER fin for people having problems with spin out, to emphasize the required change in stance. Upright over board, weight down into balanced harness lines rather than out through back leg, etc.

Sure wish I could go out and try it directly instead of sitting here typing!

downwind dave wrote:this is a feature that will appeal to the aging windsurfer demographic that is typically prone to leaving gear strewn about. in the case of leaving the board behind your van, the fin is built so tough you can actually drive right off it.

yes, the bigger the better ....not...but i do use larger fins than most cuz i enjoy the "drive", however, those who live by the big fin, especially those who wear seat harnesses in waves or sail nothing but the lake, will die by the gybe. (those that pivot the board with the nose in midair sinking the tail, never plane out of a turn....it is tough to lose the habit). Get some video coverage, look at your stance, check out against some of the better wave sailors, try to get more upright & forward, it is the flat water disease you need to beat. The looseness is more and more desirable when you wave ride but bigger guys will find it a toss-up too....plane and lose those quick turns or slogg and do nothing much at all or work all the time. I tend to use a 28 big fat wide (slowwwww) onshore wavefin in barely planing conditions (i use this up to 6.6m) 20% of days, then go to a 27 but thinner and less area 70%, then the tiny 22-23cm onshore stuff 10% (which are big fins for a lot of guys). If I try to ride a flexy, narrow, swept 20 it better be nuclear, 1-2 days a year, but some of the smaller lighter guys love those for 5.0 days. I know the shapes that work for me and in what conditions.....for u to figure out yours. I change my fin often, typically when changing sail/board, generally use those bigger onshore 3 around here, go for a thinner flexier mid size purewave fin in Oregon. I only use wave fins now, not even B&J any longer, even at the lake. Free ride fins? Lake or lame 6.6 conditions only. Pointers? those are the guys we try to not run into in the ocean....

mortontoemike wrote:.. review of a Fanatic Freewave 86..: ".....a great deal of drive off the fin."

seems like a weird way to compliment a wave board, basically fast, like a freeride, the most positive way to view a compromise/concession. ok
As for spin out, well, a fully juiced 5.8 I just cannot hold well while pushing off it to get planing with a 23cm fin but 95% of the spin outs are ....u guessed it....YOU (or me through poor board position or loading it up by sitting on yer ass, hanging in yer harness. (or that weed or massive ding) Don't blame the tools it happens, you adjust, get forward and let it re-attach, off you go. my as usual too long bits

downwind dave wrote: .. this is a feature that will appeal to the aging windsurfer demographic ..

Definitely me! Thanks for the discussion. I am learning a lot.

SORRY Kus master, U R right, again, I meant FREEWAVE fin. Maui fin company has great tables to match up your fin with sail size. They recommend using the 23 cm fin up to a 4.5 sail. 28 cm 4.5 - 5.5. depending on wind and body weight and board size. Oh yea, check out the 2K FIN TABLE. Closer to Kus" numbers.

your humble
GRASSHOPPER

don't think right or wrong, just needs to work 4 u. Those 2K fins look of the type that r too narrow for me above 22cm, maybe in real waves, micro guys would like those tho. I find that wide center section and base gives me the ooph I need if anyone wants to try other fins out tag me at the beach, I usually have a few spares