Crud or Cream? What type of breaking wave produces the best kite surfer/wind surfer/surfer? (Apples and oranges?) Kelly Slater has won 10 world surfing championships while cutting his teeth on south Florida crud whereas Gerry Lopez and Andy Irons have surrendered their North Shore Glory (Pipe) for lesser pastures. Are you better after a week of cruddy beach break or a week of tight Hookipa rights? What say you?

Good topic. I reckon the crud is probably better for growing your sailing - it always seemed to me that the best sailors (highest jumps, cleanest loops, even the best waveriders) cut their teeth in places that are windy, but not necessarily pretty. A kid who grows up sailing in the Canary islands will definitely be more versatile than the Hawaii born and bred. Dunkerbeck, Levi, the Pritchards, Philip Koster all come from the wind first, waves later school. That said, watching any of the Angulo family sail is a pretty strong argument for growing up in the cream.

On a personal note though, at this stage of my life I'd happily take the cream (lower Kanaha, just over head high) even if it meant I never improved one iota ever again ;-)

KayakDoc wrote: "Crud or Cream? What type of breaking wave produces the best kite surfer/wind surfer/surfer?"

GDawg wrote: "Good topic. I reckon the crud is probably better for growing your sailing - it always seemed to me that the best sailors (highest jumps, cleanest loops, even the best waveriders) cut their teeth in places that are windy, but not necessarily pretty."

Windy but not necessarily pretty...sounds like Hood River or somewhere more mid-island local (Port Alberni inlet). I like strong, thermal winds so much that we moved to have it on our doorstep, and the smooth, clean chop is sweet!

Currently, with no sandy beach in Port Alberni to launch from, there's no shorebreak to battle. We're still working on access and launch to get the wind community out to play in sunny, hot PA.

For cream, Tofino is just over an hour west with long sandy beaches!

Pt Alberni living has the amenities all around, and in my opinion will soon become the island centre of adventure in the near future, especially will the current low property values. Every week, coming over that hump, it makes me say ahhh, I love living in this valley.

Looking forward to seeing you back again, KayakDoc, and hearing all about your winter wind and wave adventures.

I think KD and G were talking about real wave sailing locations to improve in. PA and the Gorge don't quite count, as much as they are great spots to sail.

on a clean day or even just getting that one clean wave sometimes, I cannot believe my luck and am overjoyed. If I got it everyday I think I'd be a wavesnob in no time.....As it is, I dream about it sometimes.....getting that clean face.....wishing for it in a sea of obviously bone jarring nasty Kook chop crap.....dreaming in weird "Old Spice" ways too, like I'm doing the dishes in my dream and the family comes over and.... hey, I'm in the sun on a tourquoise water face with a serious business wave peaking behind me, long time before closing out and all I have is open smooth real estate toward the sandy warm beach where bikini clad (or not) women are playing volleyball beside the IPA cooler..... and then I slip out of the footstrap cuz I cannot believe my luck and am all distracted, get worked hard, visit the green room ..and then the doorbell rings and the Johova's Witness are at the friggen door telling me I am doomed...
Yeah, it doesn't happen often enough, who cares if you get better or not when you get it

And of course crud makes you better for obvious reasons....A westcoast crud skier will experience the same thing when going to Whitewater Doesn't mean the whitewater boyz and girlz don't know how to shred it but they'd hate it out here

So Cream is the Dream, but Crud is your Bud....consensus so far?

I don't buy your supporting points KD, Lopez moved to Bend to snowboard, not to surf crud. and AI never left hawaii except to go on the WCT tour when he died in november. True, no doubt slater became a strong surfer learning in Fla.
Nonetheless I vote for cream. I would absolutely be much better if i scored a week of perfect conditions.

Without getting too serious my intention was/is to get a healthy sample of what the BWD community believes creates (and sustains) the better wave rider. Does the pursuit of perfect wind-wave days at Lanes create the better wind/kite surfer or does the pursuit of cruddy wave downwinders at South Padre, or Long Beach VI, create the better wind/kite surfer. My supporting point re: Lopez and Andy Irons was that both of these North Shore Icons are no longer sustaining their perfect wave status stoke whereas Kelly Slater has sustained his stoke/style/supremacy well beyond any reasonable career duration. Therefore, is the reward for dealing with crud more stoke sustainability? Is Kus correct (gasp) that a s##t load of perfect conditions might kill the stoke? I suspect there might be more longevity in dealing with challenging beach crud verses numerous tube visits. Lots of variables come to mind of course--not many perfect days exist; not enough holidays for us mere mortals; always more crud than cream out there; does more stoke necessarily produce a better rider; my sample size of three surfers is not significant; etc. I think I am just questioning out loud Port Aransas, Texas vs Maui (Way-ta spoil my Maui Mecca Madness Winddoctor)