The POOP debate

abetanzo · Post by **abetanzo** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:11 am

I find it interesting that people are only just starting to realize that raw sewage is being dumped off the coast of Dallas Rd. and has been for a long time. Clover Point has primary treatment which is screening to 6mm solids then disposing the sludge in our Hartland landfill from these screens. Keep in mind by the time your turd reaches the plant it's more water than a floaty.

To put into perspective the other problems with Victoria.. the Esquimalt harbour has had many decades of shipwright work on many vessels and nucular subs etc that would have destroyed undersea life well before our poop e.coli affects much. Victoria harbour's Rock Bay is full of all sorts of contaminants including DNAPL, PAHs, PCBs, metals and petroleum hydrocarbons, in soils, groundwater and marine sediments " (taken from Worley-Parsons webpage)

I support secondary sewage treatment but mainly for the long term benefits with our population increasing. What I'm more concerned about is the amount of pharmaceutical discharge our demographics poop out into our oceans!

jim mckenzie · Post by **jim mckenzie** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:35 am

Yes, Scientific American ran an article about two months ago describing the diseases we and our pets are pumping into the ocean along with everything else. Beached dolphins, etc. are animals which have contracted our diseases and die. There are many more we don't see. I don't understand how "a few Victoria scientists" can deny and ignore this fact. It makes them appear either ignorant or crooked. Can anyone explain how their weak argument can carry any weight at all?

juandesooka · Post by **juandesooka** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:58 pm

Abetanzo: I have also been amused by all the recent talk on here about poop in the water, like people just figured out how Victoria deals with its sewage. I mean, it's not like it hasn't been in the paper and on the news every 2nd day for the past 10 years, with endless debate about exactly how the spend the bazillion dollars on sewage treatment.

jim mckenzie wrote: I don't understand how "a few Victoria scientists" can deny and ignore this fact. It makes them appear either ignorant or crooked. Can anyone explain how their weak argument can carry any weight at all?

I attended a talk by an oceanographer talking on this point a couple years ago. According to him, with very deep fast moving water in JDF, the sewage dissipates quickly. It is a drop in the bucket. For most of the year, there is no significant impact on water quality -- especially as the distance from outfall increases. I believe he said it is worst when the Fraser has the least outflow ... in winter I think. (because frozen inland) That was an interesting side note, the volume of water leaving JDF means strong net outflow currents for much of the year (which I believe probably doesn't help the surf much).

Anyways, whatever you choose to believe, there are strong opinions on both sides of the debate. Though largely irrelevant opinions, because sewage treatment is coming soon whether you like it or not.

SmallWaveSteve · Post by **SmallWaveSteve** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:18 pm

juandesooka wrote:
jim mckenzie wrote: I don't understand how "a few Victoria scientists" can deny and ignore this fact. It makes them appear either ignorant or crooked. Can anyone explain how their weak argument can carry any weight at all?
I attended a talk by an oceanographer talking on this point a couple years ago. According to him, with very deep fast moving water in JDF, the sewage dissipates quickly. It is a drop in the bucket. For most of the year, there is no significant impact on water quality -- especially as the distance from outfall increases. I believe he said it is worst when the Fraser has the least outflow ... in winter I think. (because frozen inland) That was an interesting side note, the volume of water leaving JDF means strong net outflow currents for much of the year (which I believe probably doesn't help the surf much).

My dad worked at IOS, so whenever they had work friends over they'd chat about this sort of stuff. A few of them have done dives at the sewage outlet point, apparently there's quite a bit of flora & fauna around the outlet..
All of the ones I've talked to seemed to agree that Victoria is one of the few places where sewage treatment isn't necessary.
This is partly due to the net outflow of water in the JDF straight. (All the rivers on the mainland feed into the ocean, and all that water has to come around the island.)
The consensus I got is that the treatment plant will cause more issues than it solves. Instead of having waste in low concentrations dissipated with the water (drops in bucket) they end up with mega concentrated mega toxic waste that they then need to dispose of somewhere (landfill) and hope that it doesn't leech out into surrounding soil and areas.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:24 pm

Thing is, if we aren't going to stem the flow of the pipe all together, surely we could do a bit better of a job processing the waste before sending it out to sea.

jim mckenzie · Post by **jim mckenzie** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:55 am

So everything is A-OK and whatever you guys are swimming in is just great? Are Victoria windsurfers and kitesurfers just a bunch of over imaginative crybabies ? From what I understand, Nanmoo is correct; wetlands typically act as a buffer between the pollutants we create and the ocean. Victoria has none that I know of, but something that would approximate that would seem to be helpful.

abetanzo · Post by **abetanzo** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:44 pm

I belive San Diego had a simliar situation where the Feds wanted sewage treatment but there was a battle to support not treating it?? I would have to research some more... but similar to V Island the ocean would treat it.

JDS I do support the science behind not treating sewage in the JDF but there seems to be nothing stopping the Feds here enforcing this process upon the G. Victoria population.

jim mckenzie · Post by **jim mckenzie** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:20 am

I live in the Gulf Islands. Here, we have no public system, we all have our own septic tanks and fields. Under the CRD, remarkable effort and expense (20-40 thousand dollars per household) has been exerted over the last few years to ensure that our septic fields do not leak into the bays polluting the water. As one of the few who actually gets into the water it is encouraging to know that after a heavy rain I'm not swimming in my own waste. At least we are trying. But according to the reasoning I'm hearing we would do perfectly well to just let it all go with the tide just like Victoria does. As an outsider, I hear about the conditions you guys suffer and joke about and it makes me wonder. I've always been jealous of the sailing spots you have around Victoria but maybe not so much if the water makes you sick. It all seems rather odd.

abetanzo · Post by **abetanzo** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:32 pm

now they're gona pump the slugde to hartland dump... can't wait for that pipe to blow up and leak inland! that's smart

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:02 pm

the poor water quality becomes a very tasty topic

when there has been heavy rains and the sewers leak or overflow and storm drains all run at max. THEN you get the greasy taste in the water, I hate to think what it all is but it ain't just a little poop and no, it doesn't get taken away quickly on those days but you have plenty of opportunity to ingest and absorb it all.....I bet the really good stuff floats....and coats your gear, wetsuit and skin.

I couldn't care less about a few human excrement floaties, the viral load and other stuff however, yikes!

and no multi-billion dollar taxpayer-burden sewage treatment plant is gonna take care of 100% of THAT

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