Which SUP - Quatro 10’4” (155 l) or RRD WASSUP 10’ (150 l)?

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:44 pm

Keep in mind that for FGWLB's like Winddoc and I (Fat Guys With Little Boards), our feet are pretty much at the surface of the water while standing. On a 150L board you have 2-3" of freeboard, and you'd need to add that to your paddle. Also a wider board while make the distance from your shoulder out past the rail slightly longer, so you'll want to add that in. On a skinny, sinky board, even with the top of your head +/- is just right said the baby bear.

richi · Post by **richi** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:41 pm

Head high paddle, I may have to move to the island before I get it that short. My new paddle has a 16.5" blade compared to my old blade of 14.5", I assumed it would be a couple of inches deeper in the water making my 8" more like 6". I think I'll just go with your shorter is better advice and start with 6" overhead and see where that takes me. I'll save my old paddle as a longer flat water paddle, I think it's 10" overhead.
Sorry to hijack your thread for a while David, you can borrow my paddles as well and see what works for you.

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:04 pm

richi wrote:bought a Kialoa methane paddle and haven't cut it yet, how short are you running your paddles on the island? I'm mostly going to use it on flat to waist high so was thinking 8" over head? I'm sure someone is playing with 6" or less?

so....is there a reason you guys are not using an adjustable carbon shaft

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:54 am

richi wrote: I'm sure someone is playing with 6" or less?

good one!

sounds like lots of u guys are!

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:14 am

downwind dave wrote:
richi wrote: I'm sure someone is playing with 6" or less?
good one! sounds like lots of u guys are!

I was wondering when the Master Debater was going to add his 2", er 2 cents, I mean.

DavidM · Post by **DavidM** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:09 am

Richi, does the Fanatic All Wave plane with a sail on it? Just wondering.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:34 am

Kus - Adjustable carbon paddles are not made for serious surfing or even serious flatwater drag racing like BWD does. Winddoc can break two fixed carbon paddles per season, so imagine what would happen with an adjustable joint. I don't have quite the same pythons up top, but I still managed to shear the handle off my paddle this past summer while stroking for a wave. Not to mention they are heavy and clunky and rattle.

Richi - Mr. Law saw the light first, and now almost all of us have gone to the smallest blade Werner (Nitro or the like in other brands, or homemade copy like DWD) paddles for surfing. All you need is enough blade to get you going, but not so much that it trips you up whilst surfing or provides too much leverage on your shaft. In this regard it is notable that in the previously mentioned breakage issue, Winddoc was able to wreck a bunch of larger bladed paddles probably due to the leverage they exact on the shaft, but his Werner Nitro appears to still be intact after more than a season.

I recommend everyone starts with a comfortable 6", so it feels good in hand, and then work your way down the shaft from there, sliding up and down to get the feel and cutting off 1" sections until it feels just right. Use silicone to make sure things up top are removable.

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:17 pm

nanmoo wrote:Adjustable carbon paddles are not made for serious surfing...Winddoc can break two fixed carbon paddles per season, so imagine what would happen with an adjustable joint. ....Not to mention they are heavy and clunky and rattle.

not sure how "serious" anyone of us is

weights are not much different, a few grams, .05lbs in case of chinook example, and we all use carbon booms with both arms in the middle reefing on it together with a massive sail attached or bodyweights flung during catapults when attached to the middle by harness lines...also the fits are very low tolerance and some of these sell for big bucks $300+ just like non-adjustable with 1yr warranty....so not really buying it because of an overlapping joint things get weaker, if anything it would be stronger in that upper area

Likely paddles are just made too thin to save weight, doubt the adjustment would be the issue and for the Vancouverites having to couple flat with wave I'd see that as a better option....I do see the advantage of a smaller blade tho, thx for the info

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:15 pm

i've never seen an adjustable out on the water but i wouldn't write it off. blades and handles are the typical weak links anyway, not shafts. id be more concerned of potential for wigglyness, but if you want to experiment with paddle length it could be a good trade off.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Go try an adjustable and then try the same one fixed to get the best idea. I have and the adjustable ones just aren't the same ranging from crappy to ok-but-not-quite-the-same with a nearly $100 premium to get there. It's like the feel of an adjustable ski pole versus a fixed one, at a basic level they work the same until you starting applying a lot of force.

I don't know that the comparison to a windsurfing boom is fair because it HAS to be adjustable, no way around that. A lightweight paddle is a precise instrument that acts almost alone as you hold it in your hand and paddle. Any off balance characteristics, looseness, etc, you are going to feel very clearly. In terms of durability, again, a carbon mast or boom is quite a bit thicker both in diameter and wall thickness. Just hold BWD's paddle and you'll see how petite these things can be. There are posts all over standupzone of guys snapping adjustable paddles on their first session (to be fair there are also posts about snapping one piece paddles, but rarely at the shaft). That said, like everything there are huge quality differences between brands. The last time I held my paddle in the adjustable version I was surprised how tight they had gotten the joints (you can even get a three piece) almost like a mast. But it is made in 'murica and not a cheap stick. If you are opting for the $100-$200 range I'd steer clear of the adjustables. If you are willing to drop almost $400 then the adjustable Werners are pretty good, but you are paying quite a bit more over the 1 piece.

richi · Post by **richi** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:19 pm

David M- I have only tried it with a sail once but there were quite a few weeds around. It sailed like there was tons of power in the sail and it was planing really slow. Even in perfect conditions I don't expect it to plane effortlessly, just enough to get going and hopefully drop in on a wave. Maybe removing the thrusters and putting a larger center fin would help it in Flat to bump and jump conditions. I bought it more for SUP and light wind dicking around.

nanmoo- Thanks for the silicone tip! will do that for sure. I had to dremel the handle out today because of the epoxy install, tried to remove it with boiling water but didn't work. I have tried the werner adjustables and they feel as solid as a one piece. If I had deeper pockets or found a good deal, I would prefer one.

DavidM · Post by **DavidM** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:02 pm

Thanks Richi
That is about how my 9'5", 155l Wide Point is under sail. It can plane under sail but it seem to want to suck down onto the water and requires a huge amount of wind in the sail to plane. Using it to plane is way more effort that it is worth. If there is enough wind to make it plane, there is enough to get on the windsurfer.
Very fun to slog in wave ride at Long Beach as well as surf though.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:51 pm

Richi - Make sure you tape up the handle joint with electrical tape really well as well. I started doing this thinking it would just be temporary solution until I decided on a final paddle size, but I've just kept doing it on both paddles since it's so easy and offers recourse should you change your mind. No where near as strong and permanent as epoxy for sure, but still strong enough that I was able to shear the handle off without the plug inside the shaft pulling or twisting out.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:11 pm

A heatgun applied for a few minutes to the shaft section covering the epoxied handle will soften it easily for removal. I've done this multiple times as I dropped down in length. Just heat it up and twist the handle out. Even a non-handy kook like me can do it.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:36 pm

and by heatgun Winddoc meant the hi-pow hairdryer he uses each morning to style his flowing locks just right - Just look at his avatar!

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