The marketing never ends. WE aren't idiots. D Trump IS

gorge_r_and_d wrote:You guys are idiots! ... anything that makes windsurfing cheaper, more convenient & accessible is a good thing. I fit 6 of these in the back of my Suby wagon & had shortboards on top. Not every one has a van or wants one...

http://chinooksailing.com/index.php/sup ... oards.html

WE are "all in" with inflatables, every one of our inflatable SUPs has a mast insert. So Crossover from SUP is a real advantage & it is happening. When you pump these things up to 20psi, you will be hard pressed gain much advantage from a hard touring style SUP.

I disagree, you can't entirely degrade performance for cheapness. If you end up with cheap crap that doesn't work or isn't fun it'll turn people off, and end up sitting in garages, under decks, at schools where students go for one lesson and never come back, etc.

An inflatable SUP is a lot different then an inflatable windsurfer, the general sup market as a whole is a lot lower performance then windsurfing.

The issue is when the majority of gear is starting to price the average windsurfer out of the market... I have zero desire for inflatable crap. I want gear that performs, and so I feel like I don't have to make 6 figures to afford it.

Agreed.

winddude wrote:

gorge_r_and_d wrote:You guys are idiots! ... anything that makes windsurfing cheaper, more convenient & accessible is a good thing. I fit 6 of these in the back of my Suby wagon & had shortboards on top. Not every one has a van or wants one...

http://chinooksailing.com/index.php/sup ... oards.html

WE are "all in" with inflatables, every one of our inflatable SUPs has a mast insert. So Crossover from SUP is a real advantage & it is happening. When you pump these things up to 20psi, you will be hard pressed gain much advantage from a hard touring style SUP.

I disagree, you can't entirely degrade performance for cheapness. If you end up with cheap crap that doesn't work or isn't fun it'll turn people off, and end up sitting in garages, under decks, at schools where students go for one lesson and never come back, etc.

An inflatable SUP is a lot different then an inflatable windsurfer, the general sup market as a whole is a lot lower performance then windsurfing.

The issue is when the majority of gear is starting to price the average windsurfer out of the market... I have zero desire for inflatable crap. I want gear that performs, and so I feel like I don't have to make 6 figures to afford it.

\

But YOU are NOT the market. YOU are a dead end. What I mean is: Performance is the core but not what the industry should be obsessed with. For growth we need new blood, inflatables are not cheap crap, they arebreathing new life into both SUP windSUP crowd.

Fun is in the eye of the beholder, I live & sail in the Gorge & I still think its great fun to take my small sail & put it on an inflatable & go cruise around in light wind, practicing moves, sailing with the kids & family etc ....

gorge_r_and_d wrote:

winddude wrote:

gorge_r_and_d wrote:You guys are idiots! ... anything that makes windsurfing cheaper, more convenient & accessible is a good thing. I fit 6 of these in the back of my Suby wagon & had shortboards on top. Not every one has a van or wants one...

http://chinooksailing.com/index.php/sup ... oards.html

WE are "all in" with inflatables, every one of our inflatable SUPs has a mast insert. So Crossover from SUP is a real advantage & it is happening. When you pump these things up to 20psi, you will be hard pressed gain much advantage from a hard touring style SUP.

I disagree, you can't entirely degrade performance for cheapness. If you end up with cheap crap that doesn't work or isn't fun it'll turn people off, and end up sitting in garages, under decks, at schools where students go for one lesson and never come back, etc.

An inflatable SUP is a lot different then an inflatable windsurfer, the general sup market as a whole is a lot lower performance then windsurfing.

The issue is when the majority of gear is starting to price the average windsurfer out of the market... I have zero desire for inflatable crap. I want gear that performs, and so I feel like I don't have to make 6 figures to afford it.

\

But YOU are NOT the market. YOU are a dead end. What I mean is: Performance is the core but not what the industry should be obsessed with. For growth we need new blood, inflatables are not cheap crap, they arebreathing new life into both SUP windSUP crowd.

Fun is in the eye of the beholder, I live & sail in the Gorge & I still think its great fun to take my small sail & put it on an inflatable & go cruise around in light wind, practicing moves, sailing with the kids & family etc ....

you said it yourself, performance is the core. Without performance, windsurfing would not be where it is today. Sure the original windsurfer was super popular, mass market, and simple, but quickly died out when shortboarding came along.

I feel even if people do buy these inflatables, they drop off and never move passed because the fun gear (it didn't get called fun boarding for nothing???) is very expensive. I don't see how people transition from putting around the cottage on an inflatable, to the next level? IMCO, RSX, RS-1, 293 all have these goals, to introduce new people to the sport, bring in new blood, recreate the success of the original windsurfer, and develop fleets after them, but a very small percentage move on beyond this, with the majority dropping off. I think that shows that People want the high performance aspect, or as close to it as they can grasp.

I agree lightwind sailing is fun too, but to a point. I grew up sailing the IMCO, but way would have rather been sailing slalom, or modern light wind slalom. Even light wind freeslalom gear is expensive, which should be the bread and butter, the core of the north american population around cottages and lakes has conditions for this regularly. But at $2500usd for a new board, and the average sail is $800-900 (X 2 or 3 sails), aluminum boom $300, skinny mast $600 (x 2-3)... that's a lot of dough. Then lets say you've got someone who wants to wave sail and race slalom, so you're covered for all wind conditions... unless you're sponsored, or int he industry, you have to mortgage your house.

When you're a full time instructor and can't even afford your own gear there's something fucked in the industry.

And if you want to talk young blood, I can give you countless examples of young people I had taught, introduced to the sport, or friends on older gear, around the ages 16 - 20, and the main objection was the gear was too expensive. Most of these people were sailors, snowboarders, skaters, the type of people that are drawn to these sports, and from above avg income families.

i may be an idiot , but i like that 11'6 with the middle fin. i could probably use that one a lot.

I appreciate your perspective, but honestly advanced gear is abundantly available for cheap second hand. In fact, it's not easy to sell my one year old gear for even 1/2 the retail cost, & if you go back 5yrs the gear is dirt cheap. So you could start with an inflatable SUP, get hooked & move on to cheap used gear at first. Obviously we continue to push the high performance side, but ignoring the "Fun" light wind, beginner & SUP crossover market is suicide.

... BTW Windude if you are an instructor you can get some pretty sweet deals from most windsurfing mfg. ... .. I know Chinook does, we want to support those who are teaching the next generation.

I have had loads of fun sailing these boards around. We are will continue working on the inflatable project to drive up the Performance & keep the cost down...

gorge_r_and_d wrote:I appreciate your perspective, but honestly advanced gear is abundantly available for cheap second hand. In fact, it's not easy to sell my one year old gear for even 1/2 the retail cost, & if you go back 5yrs the gear is dirt cheap. So you could start with an inflatable SUP, get hooked & move on to cheap used gear at first. Obviously we continue to push the high performance side, but ignoring the "Fun" light wind, beginner & SUP crossover market is suicide.

... BTW Windude if you are an instructor you can get some pretty sweet deals from most windsurfing mfg. ... .. I know Chinook does, we want to support those who are teaching the next generation.

I have had loads of fun sailing these boards around. We are will continue working on the inflatable project to drive up the Performance & keep the cost down...

Thanks, Your industry perspective and cycling of the gear is greatly appreciated (even if 50% off retail for a entire quiver is still painful to the wallet). I don't teach as much as I used to, only my gf right now, but if I was teaching from my trunk / van an inflatable would be a great choice there.

OK, gotta weigh-in on this one, because my kids absolutely loved their Windglider. It was the ultimate do-it-all water-fun toy for my two youngsters. Sure, it got more use as a swim platform, kayak, or all-purpose beach toy, but adult and child could windsurf on it together. With its featherweight rig, my kids easily learned how to uphaul the sail off the lee and windward sides, make the uphaul to boom transition, control power with the back hand, and steer with fore-aft sail tilt. It made their transition to a hard-hull longboard and bigger sail far easier.

For a little kid, it's so wide you can fall down on it and not fall off. The boom could be set really low for the lil' ones, or an adult could windsurf it sitting down. It's the only longboard that I've ever managed a head-dip on ( from sitting ! )

So even though its inventor, Ken Winner, went over to the string-side, and it needed a second design iteration ( the AquaGlide Sport ) to go upwind, it is still worthy of my praise.

And Windude it sounds like it's still the same deal in windsurfing that if you aren't on the latest and greatest brand new gear you're not having the most fun ? I would have thought there's never been a better time for windsufers to get inexpensive or even free older/used but still really great gear.