Windsurf Foiling Discussion

tweezer · Post by **tweezer** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:40 pm

Best to have a system that allows foil further back for windfoiling and foil forward for winging. For some manufacturers this means tuttle at the back and track forward as the picture of the starboard appears. The weight of the rig on the windfoil means you need to stand about a foot length further back than you would for winging to be balanced. Windfoil fuselages are typically longer partly for additional stability and partly to place the foil ahead enough to support the rig weight while using the traditional rear tuttle. Fanatic has a board with just tracks that claims to be able to do it all. Starboard Hypernut too. I've tried my foilX105 with rear tuttle only winging and it seems to work with enough wind. I tried yesterday in 10 knots and I wasn't able to shlog a beam reach. The foil mast's lateral resistance was too far back and it only wanted to do a broad reach. So I needed enough wind (and pump skillz) to get on the foil to stay upwind. Switched to Wingdoc's Sunova with a more forward foil mount and I was able to stay upwind while shlogging. The foilX105 with BWD's 1300 supercruiser worked well in enough wind - that was fun. I had to stand a foot ahead of my normal foot position for windfoiling while shlogging, then work my feet backwards on the board once on the foil but not all the way back to the strap positions (had to remove all straps). Not ideal, but fun nonetheless! I wonder if future foil dedicated boards will just move the foil mount forward allowing wind and wing use and shorter fuses - forget the fin!

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:46 pm

Moving the fin box forward to use shorter fuselages was recently discussed on Seabreeze forums and basically its not ideal to have the leading edge of the foil mast ahead of the center of the back foot for windfoiling. Unsure how that relationship is for winging but you definitely have to stand further forward on the wing board while slogging.

KC7777 · Post by **KC7777** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:06 pm

Probably in the wrong thread.....

My AFS-85 windsurf fuselage is ~90cm

What are people running for fuselage length for Winging....60-70cm?

If you want to Wing foil and SUP surf foil in small mushy waves on the 115L Quatro Drifter....go 60 or 70cm fuselage?

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:37 pm

KC7777 wrote:Probably in the wrong thread.....

My AFS-85 windsurf fuselage is ~90cm

What are people running for fuselage length for Winging....60-70cm?

If you want to Wing foil and SUP surf foil in small mushy waves on the 115L Quatro Drifter....go 60 or 70cm fuselage?

60cm for both. 70cm will be more stable but less pumping ability. It would be nice to have both fuses, but 60 will be what you'll want eventually.

KC7777 · Post by **KC7777** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:14 pm

winddoctor wrote:60cm for both. 70cm will be more stable but less pumping ability. It would be nice to have both fuses, but 60 will be what you'll want eventually.

Thanks Chris....confirming what I had read. I may start with 70cm for learning winging, then go 60cm.

OK back to your the regularly scheduled windsurf foiling thread.....

Thanks,

KC!

monicavi · Post by **monicavi** » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:07 am

Pure pumping, the longer fuse will glide better, pump further and for a longer time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUgfmvJLGy0

tweezer · Post by **tweezer** » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:54 am

I wonder if acceleration is faster though on a shorter fuselage with the ability to pump at a higher frequency. That might be better in waves to quickly adjust wave position. Wave Thief was testing endurance and a lower natural frequency of a longer fuselage makes sense. I wonder how far you could lengthen the fuse before you get diminishing returns. The other factor is a longer fuse can use a smaller real wing for the same lifting moment, so less drag. The fastest windfoil setup uses the 115cm fuse with a 255 rear wing. Not sure how that puppy would pump!

Tsawwassen · Post by **Tsawwassen** » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:21 am

monicavi wrote:Pure pumping, the longer fuse will glide better, pump further and for a longer time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUgfmvJLGy0

Great video. 2:30 pumping, wow my knees would explode!

While we are talking about fuse size I discovered something the other day while shopping for a new foil. The Moses fuse at the front extends over the top of the front wing so the 710 Moses fuse would be close to the 60cm Armstrong. Sorry if this has been covered before but I just found out and thought I would share. I would assume that might be similar for the axis as they look like a similar construction to the Moses.

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:41 am

Fuselage length measurement is a total crapshoot trying to compare between brands unfortunately.

Foil pumping to sustain without a wing vs pumping to start winging I think need different requirements.

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:54 am

The Phantasm also overlaps the wing/fuselage significantly. I just noticed it says the Moses wings will fit on it as well! Now I'm getting excited.

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:07 pm

I'm currently looking at getting the new Starboard E-type wing and tail for my Supercruiser fuselage. It's higher aspect and 1300cm so kind of similar to the 1100 Freeride but more carvy.
I was thinking about adapting a medium aspect Gong wing (they fit, I tried) but prices are similar and I'd rather not bother.

more force 4 · Post by **more force 4** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:04 am

Tweezer, your latest log shows a moderate foil size got you going in 8-12 with just a 4.5 sail? Thats impressive, pretty much makes struggles with RBG unnecessary unless its even lighter at the gust end. Does any of the circular wing pumping translate to helping with sail pumping or are they just too different?

tempy · Post by **tempy** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:25 am

MF4, it is Tweezer ...

There is some weird venturi effect from his tightly clenched cheeks that seems to create a pressure differential and more "lift" ...

firstonlastoff · Post by **firstonlastoff** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:04 pm

seeking comment on any or all of the following;
This is from a foil newbie, somewhat decent long-term windsurfer ( though I've been skiing more during the border closure these past few years ).
I've got a windfoil platform coming soon to my feet, and it has a double track for foil mounting. This platform has been confirmed by shops as being respectable for entry winging.
With all of the advancement in foils;
Question #1 Is the notion of a moderate aspect front foil coming in at 1500cm2 still best advice, or can the surface area and/or aspect ratio be hedged toward a somewhat more challenging learning curve ( that would be okay by me ) with the intent to use it for a longer period of time as my skills, I hope, progress?
Question #2. Is there one or two or more particular manufacturer's of foils that seem to have the longevity dialled in, such as rigidity and ease or user friendliness of assemble/disassemble over time of the hydrofoil system? I see screw lubricants as being essential, as are either SS or titanium screws dependent on funds remaining after purchasing the foils, mast, fuselage, and impact insurance ( hah ).
Thanks for anything offered up in advance.

Answering grantmac's question from the post below here ;
Windfoil is the immediate priority to learn foil riding. Looking more right now at opening up the low end which for me means 10+ knots ish that English Bay gets reasonably often each month. Carvy rides would be the preference, going fast is always fun but I am not interested in racing. Maybe winging in the future but it'll be up against my wave windsurfing gear as to what wins out then.

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:17 pm

Are you looking to both windfoil and wingfoil? Are you a go fast windsurfer or a swell carver? Which board?

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