Call me crazy but calling the locals welfare recipients may induce a large dose of KARMA...Wouldn't you agree KUS?

Nimpkish anyone ? I respect Kus's response. A neat orderly site must have rules to maintain the standard legislated. BUT I have fond memories of a communal campground.

JL wrote:I camped @ Nitinat for many years when it was free. Those days are gone. Suck it up

I love these generational things. No disrespect to you JL, but why is it fair that I have to pay when you didn't? Likewise, with the new fees on the WA side of the Gorge... thousands of people enjoyed water access for free for decades, but now it is my generation who is asked to pay for it. And we wonder why particpation rates are declining.

The crappy road, toilets and no water is what keeps the crowd down and stops it turning into a tourist gong show. I will gladly continue to pay $12 just to keep it as is..

Well Nanmoo great question ? If I hadn't gone to Nitinat in 1986 & told the other windsurfers about it the Forest company was going to log it due to lack of use. The Forest companys provided campgrounds as part of their timber license. If YOU want the old ways become a lobbyist or a politician & bring back the old rules. I'm headed for retirement it's YOUR turn. For years the windsurfing community organized, lobbied for control, & provided a host (Vic, see 'In memory' in the wiki) @ Nitinat. I feel I've done my part & have to pay to 'enjoy' the overcrowded, dirty Nitinaht just like you. P.S.: http://www.ditidaht.ca/images/dmp.pdf

Hello,

ok for those that may not know me, my name is Dale and at one time I ran the store and campground for many years at Nitinaht (1998-2003 and 2006-2008). I, as I would imagine many others do as well, think of the campground and its beach/wind sacred ground and wish to have access to it for as long as I can.

The last time people started raising a fuss over what was happening at nitinaht and started writing to the ministry and others, some drastic changes happened. For one the Nitinaht Windsurf Society no longer had the contract to run the campground (esencially free...donations welcome, campground fairly clean and volunteers did the maintenance...SO many to name...but Nanmoo this is where JL and so many others contributed), the ministry did inspections and then bascially put the crunch down wanting the campground to run like other recreational sites (which I had to enforce during my tenure) . I speak candidily in this next point...when I IMPLEMENTED the standard rules for recreational sites I was enemy number one and people ran away, refused to pay, bucked and fought, kicked and screamed.....to the point I brought the police in one day to actually evict a person (didn't happen though which was good as they reconsidered their position). And THEN the ministry said well lets send in our biologists and hence all areas that so many people were able to access were shut down, sites designated....once again an outcry from the users.....references to NItwit lake abound. Why I state all this was because a few people decided to protest and take it upon themselves to "make a statement" and the experience that so many people loved changed forever.

Kus is right in that times change......with Treaty negotiations and land settlements I believe that the management of the park even thought it is technically not "band land" will remain in the hands of the Ditidaht. It is in Treaty land and borders the reserve. OUR access to the park tresspasses on reserve land.....think about it.

As for the atrocious condition of the road from the edge of the village down to the park....THAT IS NOT the responsibility of the Park operator...never has been. It is a private road belonging to who ever holds the TFL for the area so once again WE are tresspassing to gain access to our beloved campground. The campground at one time was a McMillan Bloedel site who also built the road..then when they gave it to Forestry they only handed over the park area. When Hayes had the TFL they would now and then send a grader down, but that stopped when hayes left.

Onto the topic of Darcy. She is an employee and does what she is instructed to do. When I ran the place I was run ragged to try and keep up with things and be fair in collections etc etc and so often was unable to get it all done. She is alloted only so much time to do her collections and TP from what I understand...would you as an employee do more than what your instructed to do and get paid for???? I doubt it. As far as I know her boss is Fred Johnson with the Ditidaht Forest Products, so should you have concerned then I suggest taking it up with him during normal business hours.

To look back into the past and say it was better back then is an easy thing to do...the user group was different and no not just because you were windsurfers but rather a tight community of people who all considered this area sacred. That has changed due to the explosion of different users kiting/fishing and now casual campers (drive by cowhichan lake...no campsites there....overflow). There was a time that I knew at any given time by first name 90% of the people there....I if lucky maybe recognize 20% now....the people I know are still there...but just so many more are coming. I don't think we have to "lose this paradise" but I do think creating a storm or refusing to pay is opening up a can of worms that historically dramatically altered the nitinhat experiece for so many.

Finally to the comment of the "welfare for the locals"....well that is just an ignorant statement and you do not have my respect for such a comment. EVERYBODY wants something from nitinaht.....we use it for our play...but people also have to live there. IT is a remote place....employment very limited, I for one do what I can to support services that are provided. AT this time that would be Richard at the store and his buffet breakfasts and limited groceries. Lucy and the motel should the campground be full and you can afford a room. It costs money to maintain the water systems of the village...you want free water...well that comes under the supply of Ditidaht Public works not REcreational site whatever. Yes the campground is run by the band.... but like all governments different ministries dont give each other their budgets do they?

MY Position is: Support what is there, limited as it may be, ask politely for services to be provided, should you see things that are in you opinion wrong (vehicles on the beach) maybe approach and ask/offer opinions...I do. Embrace the place for what is is at the moment and share all the good. If you can't see the good then find that magical place somewhere else that will provide you with all that you are looking for.

NUff Said.. thank you reading this post

Dale (KSD)

Thanks for the input Dale. Sorry I didn't mention you earlier. p.s. I think this is a topic worthy of discussion on the regular part of the site. Thanks for bringing it up heffe222. Remember everyone we all share a common love of kiting, windsurfing & camping PLEASE do not make racial slurs or resort to name calling. Jim Laite BWD mediator

Best twelve bucks you will ever spend.!! No potholes in Disneyland.!

Thx for that Dale and good on ya for the review, thank you. MOT as in the US has the adopt-a-highway program and some parks in the US also have used this model. They are supported by the Ministry and the work is volunteer based with funding coming from charitable donations that are tax deductible. Not a whole lot of partnering going on.....In this case the local community was chosen as the prime caretaker group over volunteers. http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca/partnering-with-us/

as for

Alexk wrote:The crappy road, toilets and no water is what keeps the crowd down and stops it turning into a tourist gong show. I will gladly continue to pay $12 just to keep it as is..

not a reason, still looking for what the payment is for....there can be those conditions if nobody pays at all. It should be laid out on the bulletin board with the maintenance standard and "Where is your dollar going?" ie. pumping cans, making trees safe, loads of gravel etc. with $$ figures

Yes, BK, it was perhaps a poorly chosen statement.....we all make them on occasion (offender #1 here.... ), on the other hand it was also expanded upon that, depending interpretation.

JL, I too have fond memories of the communical Nitinaht. Loved the raking of the road by hand that Tom S and others used to do, put together the few picnic tables alotted, we burned the old outhouses and got those "fancy" new ones, ....only to have to pump the tanks which caused a huge expense shipping shit from the lake to another lake/inlet and dump it there untreated....masterful management

I hear that there were some land settlements in Williams Lake so perhaps the ball is rolling again......to where who knows? Yes indeed some day the Lake may be off limits so one must be grateful and we don't wanna pave paradise......and it is sacred grounds. Too bad many users don't treat it as such....start picking up yer shit, don't drive onto the beaches etc. and the rest of the users should be ragging bigtime on those that don't. Good on you, Gwind

So Dale, the question about the road then....if not Hayes, who has the TFL now? ....And could Fred hire a grader and bill the MOF if it's vacant.

Everyone needs to just clam down":)

Ok, lets address the fee question...where does your money go. As far as I understand it the campsites is still $10 a night with a $2.00 surcharge added for campers to drop a bag of garbage off at the dumpsters accross from the motel. Earlier in the season this dumpster was locked but that has been remedied and now signs say motel and store use only. Again as far as I understand we do have access to those dumpsters. As for the $10 I don't have a breakdown of $2.00 for this and that but when I was collecting the contract dictated the funds were to be used to supply toilet paper to the biffies, keep the biffies in a reasonable state, maintain the sites (ie brush them out if salmon berries etc encroaching) and off course pump the biffies out when needed. ONe of the greatest challenges was that certain biffies would become full before the others and it is a very large expense to have the pumper come out to do just a couple. Twice a year is financially feasable if it was a good season and you were diligent in your collections otherwise you basically worked all season for nothing. Then of course if you have any money left over the rest is profit for your time. So herein is the biggest problem, people get all upset that services are not being rendered...avoid paying etc etc which leaves little funds left once wages are paid to do the maintenance we are wishing. YES some people get away with not paying....YES it is not fair to those of us that do pay, it used to drive me nuts when I was collecting that I had to chase people down and agrue and threaten, but now I just look at is as I am doing my part as a camper and only can hope others will realize that avoiding paying really is only making the situation worse.

ONto the road issue. I believe Island timberlands is the tfl holder but I could be mistaken in that. When hayes was around I often would basically give the guys a free lunch and they would venture down and do a pass or to .... worked out well for everybody. Whoever does the main road from Cowichan and Franklin would more than likely be the ones who would have the ability to do so. Keep in mind it is not a responsibility of theirs to mainain that road.it is private and not considered a mainline. AS for hiring a grader and billing....not likely an option due to the fact as stated before is a private road

Hope that helps

Cheers
Dale

Thanks again Dale

I just save my beer cans and the deposit money pays for the camping !

No problems here and the wind is free, so we all win.

Must be Summer.
Been going there for ever. Hasn't really changed at all. Just some of the faces change. Some years the roads are good. Sometimes some part of the road is bad. Some years the roads are bad all the way.

Never been water there, in the last 30 years, we all used to walk to the river.
Out houses, some years good, some years not.

Wind is still good.

At once apon a time there was no store, no gas, no internet, no cafe,
no motel, no nothing. How the hell did we survive ?
Just fine thank you.

And about Rules- have you driven in traffic lately, kinda like there ain't no rules, well the lake is kind of like that too. Nitwit like.

Sail harder, bitch less. Rag on the idiots


It 's called wilderness camping, Jesus no wonder the road is bad
Everyone has to go to the store 20 times a day.

Nitinaht campsite will probably never really change , you camp, you sail, you go home. Pretty simple.

And the fee - well what don't we pay for now, that we didn't pay for in the old days ?

Having been a solid user of the lake in the 90's and then a 10 year break, and up for a day trip last Sept it had the same vibe to me. In the 90's I thought if we wanted more out of the place there would be a cost involved. Now kind of the same thing, if more is provided the cost may jump up from $12 or whatever to ??? I look at it as camping costs, complain they could go up. If that goes up will there be a day user fee. Be careful what you wish for and the path taken to get there. It took us a long time to set up the little atco trailer deal in the lot beside the store back in the day and the first WIRED which is now Windfest. I think that change comes slowly there and policies are best addressed in the winter for an upcoming season. Unfortunately in winter people forget about the lake and nothing gets done. I'm definitely out of the loop but would like to bring the kids up there one day as they are starting to show an interest in sailing. I would like to help out if there is something that can be done. Not just bitch about it!!