2015 Nitinaht Lake Fees and Politics

SmallWaveSteve · Post by **SmallWaveSteve** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:45 am

Winddude, this probably isn't the right venue/thread for this discussion, but I'll bite since you brought it up:

1) When did we start paying for water time? We're talking about paying for use of the campground.

2) Is it that big a deal to short-tack when a newbie or downed kite is body dragging through? When ws'ers come upwind and are slogging away in front of me, I just go back the opposite direction, or cut down and around them and then back upwind, it's not a big deal (we do the same thing with body downed kites in the upwind area too).

3) I think you'd be hard pressed to convince all the ws'ers to hump all their big gear upwind where the kiters stage

4) I don't think anybody (except you) is interested in getting into a windsufing vs kiteboarding debate; I've seen just as many windsurfers being hazards on the water as kiteboarders (Bumping and jumping <10 ft downwind of kiters, one ws'er in particular I've had clip my lines with his mast).

Windsurfing is a dying sport - look at the number of people learning to kite vs windsurfing, you're not going to win any debates on kiters paying 3x more, if it's that much of a problem for you it may be worth looking at a different venue to surf.

5) There's plenty of room at Nitinat 90% of the time, long weekends are the only time it's crowded. Maybe we should just ban windsurfing so that us kiters have more room to spread out downwind? ;)

abetanzo · Post by **abetanzo** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:14 pm

[i]I'd like to see a flat rate for services.

$5 / day trip
$10/ any vehicle / night (up to 6 people) max two tents
$15 / RV or trailer / night
extra vehicle on site $5 / night
extra tent on site $5 /night
no premium sites or special cases

Keep it stupid simple... from the documents attached above there are the top 3 criteria in the fee policy... Simplicity, Appropriate rates, Consolidation..

If a group has packed into a site and is sharing the table and fire pit cut them a break and consolidate the fees.. eg: 1/2 price for an extra vehicle.

No where in the documents or online have I seen specifications on vehicle charges... I've been told its on the big brown sign but I'm curious if that is an outdated notice board which is why we are getting charged for an extra vehicle?? I'm happy to pay what ever the fees are set at just make it clear as day!!! nobody will be able to challenge it when there is a big fuck you sign that says all the things it needs to say...

we could make one up a sign on sailing etiquette... a no whining board... why kiteboarding is better than windsurfing... how to roll the biggest spliff.. local attraction maps (waterfall / box canyon), river trail / bike track map.... etc

I'm always keen to volunteer and help where I can! see ya at the lake on Canada Day!!

winddude · Post by **winddude** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:22 pm

5) There's plenty of room at Nitinat 90% of the time, long weekends are the only time it's crowded. Maybe we should just ban windsurfing so that us kiters have more room to spread out downwind?

Nitnat and squamish are probably the two smallest and most crowded venues in North America.

SmallWaveSteve · Post by **SmallWaveSteve** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:45 pm

winddude wrote:...
Safety is a concern, Squamish probably has a number of incidents a year, I used to ride there the odd day in the summer when I lived in Van, one kiter left in an ambulance in critical condition after slamming into a bbq. Colin(I believe that his name, who own Squamish Kite School) missed being knocked unconscious by a few inches when a kite crashed full speed near his head on the water, bladder exploded/guy deflated it to avoid it taking his head off.

There's also a number of aggro idiot kiters there throwing down in the honey hole seeing how close they can get to the bach/rocks/crowds etc... who I would suspect are responsible for the majority of the problems there.
It's an individual matter, not one of banning one group or another

Adrian - It would be nice if they went for the simple model, but I don't think I've ever seen any campgrounds that go for that, they always want to charge per party. Maybe I'll be proven wrong (I'd be glad for that to happen)

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:56 pm

winddude wrote:Nitinat and squamish are probably the two smallest and most crowded venues in North America.

I know you've been to Hood River...

and;

You should see Waddell on a busy day... and there is real waves there too.

winddude · Post by **winddude** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:29 pm

haven't seen waddell... and hood river there are like 20-30 different spots within that 30miles on two sides, and the best of them with none or only a few kiteboarders.

Teabag · Post by **Teabag** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:46 pm

I love cats, but dogs is my favorite domestic animal. What African wild animal do you guys like the most?

Do you prefer the colour blue or red?

Blue moon wings are good. Do you like hamburgers?

OtLunch · Post by **OtLunch** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:01 pm

Here's a cute puppy.

GWIND · Post by **GWIND** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:20 pm

Once again the topic has gone sideways. I am hoping brighter minds prevail.
.... My 2 cents echos previous posts. Simple, is the best formula. This campsite should be pack it in pack it out, there should be no garbage left anywhere. Including all those f'ing liquor bottles left in piles which only creates garbage piles. Everyone, almost, cries about the lack of toilet paper. The operators should stop supplying the paper. Saves them money and a huge amounts of time. WILDERNESS CAMPING, BRING EVERYTHING YOU NEED. If not buy it at the store. End of problem. Man or women power is probably at a premium at the village, so modifying the whole structure of the management is probably important. I think getting those park workers hours down to a minimum is key factor. After all who in hell wants to serve You lot.
A simple fee structure with a simple ish collection system is the hard part. And a fair nightly fee would be good. I am hoping this is where the Brighter minds comes to play.
And lastly, everyone needs to be part of an ongoing solution, monitoring, clean up, and a little bit of policing, or is that only for grumpy old f,ers like me.
Now come on, let's try and concentrate.
Damn that is a cute dog.

VindVoman · Post by **VindVoman** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:42 pm

GWIND wrote: should be pack it in pack it out, there should be no garbage left anywhere. Including all those f'ing liquor bottles left in piles which only creates garbage piles.

I strongly agree. It is arrogant to leave empties by the sign. Pack it all out.

R

KC7777 · Post by **KC7777** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:00 pm

Havent read much of this thread.....

But it is proven that sometimes if you charge less you actually collect more.

ie if personal tax rates are too high....people stop working, or stop reporting income. So total tax revenues go down. But when you lower tax rates, then you don't kill incentive to work (as people keep more after tax cash) and less people try to evade taxes.....so you still end up collecting more in total even though actual rates are lower.....Reaganomics 101.

Right now there are people evading....as they perceive the cost/night to be too high. And there is no enforcement, so some pay, and some don't.

I think you should charge $10 per vehicle per night with a max. cost of $20 per site so if three cars cram into a site there is a savings. Simple. People will pay that more often than not. Therefore you will collect more. ie 20 cars paying $17 and 30 "evading" at $0/night = $340 total revenue.....vs 50 cars paying $10 = $500.

And there should be a "seasons pass" rate. ie $200 for the season?

PS - f'ing idiotic to mention banning kiters. That is f'd. All of us windsurfers will likely be kiters one day. I know I plan to.

KC

rvanderbyl · Post by **rvanderbyl** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:12 pm

Strongly agree with Gwind and KC7s on this. I don't need anything supplied for me if the rate reflects that. I have always camped at Nitnat that way and will continue to do so. Just clean the outhouses, tp is optional that way if you are charging less per night anyway people will expect to bring their own, grade the road once in a while, pack all your shit out people and end of story!

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:14 pm

1) Thanks Ray for putting my thoughts into words.

2) KC is an accountant, should prolly consider what he's suggesting. Besides, what are the odds of a toonie and a loonie making it back to civilization after they have been stuffed in your board shorts and you're 3 beers in.

3) Hopefully the kiters know that 99.9% of the windsurfers have no problem sharing the lake I hope they feel the same way.

Headed up next weekend, TP or not I'm stoked!!!

JL · Post by JL » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:17 am

This thread is/was about Camping Fees & Politics . Slanderous comments will not remain here. Dave has provided an off topic area http://bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=15 if you want to introduce questionable threads

Kiters/windsurfers & anyone else updating themselves with Nitinaht don't need to be frustrated by negative rantings.

[/b]

winddude · Post by **winddude** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:26 am

My bad, I guess I was going with the political angle.

As for fees, $10 or $15 I'm fine with, but of course I prefer $10.

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