New Hellfish Kite

Stammy · Post by **Stammy** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:22 pm

Just wanted to fill riders in on a new kite that Best has started producing. The kite is made of Cuben Fiber which, for discussion purposes, is like an aluminum kite. It is actually the material used by NASA to protect the exterior of Space Satelites. These kites are 100% UV resistent, stretch-proof and fold-proof. The leading edge is 70% smaller than typical dacron so as to reduce drag but 50-60% stronger. The canopy material used in the Hellfish looks like chrome (polished metal). Traditional kites use polyester "rip-stop" for the canopy weighing approximately 50 grams per square meter. The Hellfish, approximately 12 grams per square meter. Supposedly, the 13m will be as powerful as a normal 17m kite yet have similar flying characteristics of a typically much smaller kite.

With all that in mind, it is quite possible that Best will now have the ability to take a stangle hold on the kite producing market. I wonder if any of the other companies have the money to be able to take on such a project as well.

I'm not trying to plug Best here, I don't even fly one, but if these kites really do what Best says they can do, I along with a lot of other people will probably be investing in a new product.

I have a feeling that this issue should spark quite a bit of conversation and for more info you can read about the kite yourself on Best's webpage.

Stammy · Post by **Stammy** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:58 pm

Another Tidbit that I forgot to mention:

If, within 30 days, you don't like the kite for any reason, Best will fully refund your money and give you an extra $100 US.

Now that has got to be a good product.

dwd · Post by **dwd** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:03 pm

plus, thanks to google i see cuben is the shite for little boats, as well as cigars?

http://www.onemetre.net/Opinion/Cuben/Cuben.htm

Kite Kook · Post by **Kite Kook** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:46 pm

"fold proof" - so you can't fold it? I think it will look pretty funny on top of the car...

in all seriousness, i have no idea what that kite will be like, but it sure looks like a lot of hype and marketing b.s. ..

Mattdog · Post by **Mattdog** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:55 pm

This'll have a lot of kite companies gasping for air. Why would you buy a brand kite that is twice the weight and 3 times the packed size for the same money, plus less durable?

Unless other companies can come up with a similar material, best has it cornered since they have a patent protected deal with Cuben.

I always thought Cuben smoked the best.

more force 4 · Post by **more force 4** » Thu May 05, 2005 5:54 pm

Thanks for the link dwd. THe model boats blew out their sails in a couple of sessions in < 7 m per second (14 kt?) in both the 16 and 30 gm/sq m versions of the cloth? Doesn't sound very durable for the abuse kites can get. Sounds like a wait-and-see. I hadn't heard of this stuff for windsurfer sails, unless this the new shiny material Tushingham or Severn is using for some lines? If so, maybe they have beat some of the fragility issues.

Mattdog · Post by **Mattdog** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:28 pm

Whaoh, You guys actually assume that Best is using the same gauge or quality of material used on the toy boats

nuff said

Stammy · Post by **Stammy** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:19 pm

Kook St. Kite Kook wrote:"fold proof" - so you can't fold it? I think it will look pretty funny on top of the car...

in all seriousness, i have no idea what that kite will be like, but it sure looks like a lot of hype and marketing b.s. ..

I think what they mean by fold proof is that the kite won't crease like other products can after a long life.

According to the tech reports, the material is stronger than dacron. If it performs better and lasts longer, the marketing will be well deserved.

Kite Kook · Post by **Kite Kook** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:51 pm

agreed.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:03 pm

A big piece of aluminum in the sky is going to have more serious risks and advantages than performance and durability.

disadvantages: if the sun is at your back, you're gonna go blind
advantages: we'll all have better sun tans

dwd · Post by **dwd** » Thu May 05, 2005 11:13 pm

i was just kidding around with that toy boat link, but actually if you read a bit on that site those dudes dont screw around. probably kick my ass for saying "toy" too.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:14 am

Yeah those "scale" boat guys (especially the English variety) are pretty fanatical about their high tech materials etc. You can tell by the discussion on whether Cuben is a laminate under the rules definitions. I expected that the cloth the guy was using was pretty similar to the kite material, especially as the weight given (about 12 gm per m square) was the same, it seemed he had an industry source for the Cuben material.

Anyone know if this is the same (or slightly different related) material as the "metallic x-ply" material Severn uses in its Blade sails? Those are apparently highly reflective too, I haven't seen one.

When might we see these new kites locally?

Stammy · Post by **Stammy** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:37 pm

I know that down here in Cabarete, we will be getting these kites in 5 weeks time. I'm assuming that people can have them in Canada just as soon if they order them.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:52 am

I find it hard to believe that the other kite companies are going to sid idly by without coming out with their own "new material" kites. There is no way that Best will take a stranglehold on the market.

Kite Kook · Post by **Kite Kook** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:08 am

I look forward to when this kite is released so we can all check it out. If it is anywhere near what is described in the marketing, the hype will be well deserved. In the meantime, however, lets look at what has been said.

Stammy says the material is 12 grams/sq. meter. That link on the sailboats describes a guy using 19 grams/sq.meter:

“I’ve heard from quite a few sailors who are interested in Cuben fibre and my experience with it. It is now clear to me that the very lightest Cuben fibre cloth (19 gm/sq.m) is really only suited to light airs sailing. I have blown out my sails from only two Sundays of racing when the wind never got much above 3.5 m/sec in either event”

3.5 m/sec is less than 7 knots! So, this guy apparently uses Cuben material of a heavier weight that that for the kites in his toy racing boat, and blows out 2 sails in less than 7 knots of wind!! If they really did use this in kites, I could foresee a problem…

So, I am not trying to offend anyone, but I really don’t see the point in taking marketing seriously. If the kite fits the description, best kites will have done a wonderful thing in improving the standard used in the industry, and will reap the benefits while all the other manufacturers struggle to catch up. But the hype seems over the top and almost silly. So, this is one kiter that will wait and see.

Good winds to all.